It is *mostly* possible, but a ton of work. You have to build apple's gcc, which is no fun on another OS. Also as stated you must copy those frameworks. On Nov 16, 2011 12:00 PM, kclug-request@kclug.org wrote:
Send KCLUG mailing list submissions to kclug@kclug.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to kclug-request@kclug.org
You can reach the person managing the list at kclug-owner@kclug.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KCLUG digest..."
Today's Topics:
- Re: iOS application on Linux (Mike Dupont)
- RE: iOS application on Linux (Kelsay, Brian - OCIO-ITS, Kansas City, MO)
- Re: iOS application on Linux (John McPherson)
- Re: iOS application on Linux (Chris Bier)
Message: 1 Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:05:21 +0100 From: Mike Dupont jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com To: "Christofer C. Bell" christofer.c.bell@gmail.com Cc: Kclug kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: iOS application on Linux Message-ID: <CAF0qKV1pRKWKSpTgOVdogw42zueSWEXhYi1QQCUhrWO-xYyeiQ@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
here is what I found so far: http://code.google.com/p/cocotron/ The Cocotron is a cross-platform implementation of Objective-C API's similar to Foundation and AppKit
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:54 AM, Christofer C. Bell christofer.c.bell@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Jack quiet_celt@yahoo.com wrote:
Anyone know if one can write AND deploy iOS applications from Linux?
Not really. ?If you're programming for iOS, you're writing against the UI that iOS provides. ?Linux doesn't provide the same user interface. That said, Objective-C is available for both.
Debian (and derivatives): gobjc Fedora (and derivatives): libobjc
Anyone ever used PhoneGap in Linux?
Never heard of it.
Best iPhone/iPad emulator?
The one that comes with the iOS SDK. http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/ios/index.action
Cheap Apple development box?
A Mac mini. http://www.apple.com/macmini/
Thanks, Jack
-- Chris _______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
-- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
Message: 2 Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:46:13 +0000 From: "Kelsay, Brian - OCIO-ITS, Kansas City, MO" brian.kelsay@kcc.usda.gov To: Kclug kclug@kclug.org Subject: RE: iOS application on Linux Message-ID: < 9D64F4E6F75DDF4687D34BFC22071A952004F7@001FSN2MPN1-036.001f.mgd2.msft.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
According to my local Mac Guru, he agrees that the Mac Mini is the cheapest way to get into iOS development (~$600). The iOS SDK is free. You would also need to pay for a dev acct to be able to submit completed programs to the App Store ($100). This is needed even if you build an app and release it for free.
Brian Kelsay
-----Original Message----- From: On Behalf Of Christofer C. Bell Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 5:54 PM Subject: Re: iOS application on Linux
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Jack wrote:
Anyone know if one can write AND deploy iOS applications from Linux?
Not really. If you're programming for iOS, you're writing against the UI that iOS provides. Linux doesn't provide the same user interface. That said, Objective-C is available for both.
Debian (and derivatives): gobjc Fedora (and derivatives): libobjc
Anyone ever used PhoneGap in Linux?
Never heard of it.
Best iPhone/iPad emulator?
The one that comes with the iOS SDK. http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/ios/index.action
Cheap Apple development box?
A Mac mini. http://www.apple.com/macmini/
Thanks, Jack
-- Chris
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:26:55 -0600 From: John McPherson xeniphon@gmail.com To: Kclug kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: iOS application on Linux Message-ID: 8C8155D1-E42C-42A9-B131-FC82A96B583A@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
If you have a PC and patience, you could try to put MacOS on a PC. Of course if you are one of those folks who actually reads the EULA then this isn't likely an option; www.osx86project.org
On Nov 16, 2011, at 7:46 AM, Kelsay, Brian - OCIO-ITS, Kansas City, MO wrote:
According to my local Mac Guru, he agrees that the Mac Mini is the
cheapest way to get into iOS development (~$600). The iOS SDK is free. You would also need to pay for a dev acct to be able to submit completed programs to the App Store ($100). This is needed even if you build an app and release it for free.
Brian Kelsay
-----Original Message----- From: On Behalf Of Christofer C. Bell Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 5:54 PM Subject: Re: iOS application on Linux
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Jack wrote:
Anyone know if one can write AND deploy iOS applications from Linux?
Not really. If you're programming for iOS, you're writing against the UI that iOS provides. Linux doesn't provide the same user interface. That said, Objective-C is available for both.
Debian (and derivatives): gobjc Fedora (and derivatives): libobjc
Anyone ever used PhoneGap in Linux?
Never heard of it.
Best iPhone/iPad emulator?
The one that comes with the iOS SDK. http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/ios/index.action
Cheap Apple development box?
A Mac mini. http://www.apple.com/macmini/
Thanks, Jack
-- Chris
KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
Message: 4 Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:22:31 -0600 From: Chris Bier chris.bier@cymor.com To: KCLUG kclug@kclug.org Cc: Kclug kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: iOS application on Linux Message-ID: 20111116162231.GO6623@bwv846.cymor.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
You might want to take a look at this mobile platform framework list: http://www.markus-falk.com/mobile-frameworks-comparison-chart/
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 09:02:45PM -0800, Jack wrote:
Thanks Chris,
What I really meant was what is the best development environment on
Linux. I'm aware the best environment is on Macs with the official SDK.
Deploying, would really just have been a bonus. I have no desire to write iPhone Apps, but my grandson might. He's not
in a financial situation to go and buy a Mac or even get a
developer license from Apple. I myself am disinclined to obtain said
tools for him. A truly cheap Mac, I might be willing to buy.
Cheap as in older, used, discarded, PC hardware, cheap.
I've known about the Objective-C compiler in GNU for years. I've seen
the iphone-dev site,
which seems abandoned, and thus was not sure even what level of
development is possible in Linux.
Was not sure about the VM capabilities either. I have no intentions of
clicking through any Apple EULA/NDA. Especially considering the DOJs latest stand on things.
I would allow my underage grandson to do such, except now the DOJ is
calling him (and every US minor) a criminal who should be prosecuted,
simply due to the fact: they are minors, the CFAA, and Google's TOS.
For those, new to the story, the DOJ says it's a crime to violate the
TOS of a website. Google's TOS forbid minors, because they cannot legally enter into a contract.
Hence any minor can't legally use Google without becoming a felon per
CFAA. I'm pretty sure just about every teen in America has used Google.
http://www.google.com/accounts/TOS
"2.3 You may not use the Services and may not accept the Terms if (a) you are not of legal age to form a binding contract with Google, or (b) you are a person barred from receiving the Services under
the laws of the United States or other countries including the country
in which you are resident or from which you use the Services."
Brilliant.
Thanks again, Jack
From: Christofer C. Bell christofer.c.bell@gmail.com To: Jack quiet_celt@yahoo.com Cc: Kclug kclug@kclug.org Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 5:54 PM Subject: Re: iOS application on Linux
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Jack quiet_celt@yahoo.com wrote:
Anyone know if one can write AND deploy iOS applications from Linux?
Not really.? If you're programming for iOS, you're writing against the UI that iOS provides.? Linux doesn't provide the same user interface. That said, Objective-C is available for both.
Debian (and derivatives): gobjc Fedora (and derivatives): libobjc
Anyone ever used PhoneGap in Linux?
Never heard of it.
Best iPhone/iPad emulator?
The one that comes with the iOS SDK. http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/ios/index.action
Cheap Apple development box?
A Mac mini. http://www.apple.com/macmini/
Thanks, Jack
-- Chris
KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
End of KCLUG Digest, Vol 87, Issue 4
Yes, that was my original feeling, when doing my own searching.
Well, I guess our final project will be an Android game App. Seems to be a bit more open and Free as in freedom and beer, although I'm sure there's a cost there to deploy also.
Can't say, I'm not surprised that an Apple solution would be excruciating from the outside.
releasing an app could always be done the Hackintosh way, but there's still all that pain just getting there.
With Android and my "course", he'll learn a little: Linux, HTML5, CSS, javascript, Java, and some Android development. Along with math and physics and such.
A bit better rounded. Still, there's that huge closed, pay to play, market. Who knows, Android may be the shot in the arm FOSS needs to build a really huge base.
Thanks everyone, your comments, as always are enlightening and useful.
Jack
________________________________ From: Richard Allen rsaxvc@gmail.com To: kclug@kclug.org Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 12:10 PM Subject: Re: KCLUG Digest, Vol 87, Issue 4
It is *mostly* possible, but a ton of work. You have to build apple's gcc, which is no fun on another OS. Also as stated you must copy those frameworks. On Nov 16, 2011 12:00 PM, kclug-request@kclug.org wrote:
Send KCLUG mailing list submissions to
kclug@kclug.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to kclug-request@kclug.org
You can reach the person managing the list at kclug-owner@kclug.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KCLUG digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: iOS application on Linux (Mike Dupont) 2. RE: iOS application on Linux (Kelsay, Brian - OCIO-ITS, Kansas City, MO) 3. Re: iOS application on Linux (John McPherson) 4. Re: iOS application on Linux (Chris Bier)
Message: 1 Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:05:21 +0100 From: Mike Dupont jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com To: "Christofer C. Bell" christofer.c.bell@gmail.com Cc: Kclug kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: iOS application on Linux Message-ID: CAF0qKV1pRKWKSpTgOVdogw42zueSWEXhYi1QQCUhrWO-xYyeiQ@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
here is what I found so far: http://code.google.com/p/cocotron/ The Cocotron is a cross-platform implementation of Objective-C API's similar to Foundation and AppKit
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:54 AM, Christofer C. Bell christofer.c.bell@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Jack quiet_celt@yahoo.com wrote:
Anyone know if one can write AND deploy iOS applications from Linux?
Not really. ?If you're programming for iOS, you're writing against the UI that iOS provides. ?Linux doesn't provide the same user interface. That said, Objective-C is available for both.
Debian (and derivatives): gobjc Fedora (and derivatives): libobjc
Anyone ever used PhoneGap in Linux?
Never heard of it.
Best iPhone/iPad emulator?
The one that comes with the iOS SDK. http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/ios/index.action
Cheap Apple development box?
A Mac mini. http://www.apple.com/macmini/
Thanks, Jack
-- Chris _______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
-- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
Message: 2 Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:46:13 +0000 From: "Kelsay, Brian - OCIO-ITS, Kansas City, MO" brian.kelsay@kcc.usda.gov To: Kclug kclug@kclug.org Subject: RE: iOS application on Linux Message-ID: 9D64F4E6F75DDF4687D34BFC22071A952004F7@001FSN2MPN1-036.001f.mgd2.msft.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
According to my local Mac Guru, he agrees that the Mac Mini is the cheapest way to get into iOS development (~$600). The iOS SDK is free. You would also need to pay for a dev acct to be able to submit completed programs to the App Store ($100). This is needed even if you build an app and release it for free.
Brian Kelsay
-----Original Message----- From: On Behalf Of Christofer C. Bell Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 5:54 PM Subject: Re: iOS application on Linux
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Jack wrote:
Anyone know if one can write AND deploy iOS applications from Linux?
Not really. If you're programming for iOS, you're writing against the UI that iOS provides. Linux doesn't provide the same user interface. That said, Objective-C is available for both.
Debian (and derivatives): gobjc Fedora (and derivatives): libobjc
Anyone ever used PhoneGap in Linux?
Never heard of it.
Best iPhone/iPad emulator?
The one that comes with the iOS SDK. http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/ios/index.action
Cheap Apple development box?
A Mac mini. http://www.apple.com/macmini/
Thanks, Jack
-- Chris
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:26:55 -0600 From: John McPherson xeniphon@gmail.com To: Kclug kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: iOS application on Linux Message-ID: 8C8155D1-E42C-42A9-B131-FC82A96B583A@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
If you have a PC and patience, you could try to put MacOS on a PC. Of course if you are one of those folks who actually reads the EULA then this isn't likely an option; www.osx86project.org
On Nov 16, 2011, at 7:46 AM, Kelsay, Brian - OCIO-ITS, Kansas City, MO wrote:
According to my local Mac Guru, he agrees that the Mac Mini is the cheapest way to get into iOS development (~$600). The iOS SDK is free. You would also need to pay for a dev acct to be able to submit completed programs to the App Store ($100). This is needed even if you build an app and release it for free.
Brian Kelsay
-----Original Message----- From: On Behalf Of Christofer C. Bell Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 5:54 PM Subject: Re: iOS application on Linux
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Jack wrote:
Anyone know if one can write AND deploy iOS applications from Linux?
Not really. If you're programming for iOS, you're writing against the UI that iOS provides. Linux doesn't provide the same user interface. That said, Objective-C is available for both.
Debian (and derivatives): gobjc Fedora (and derivatives): libobjc
Anyone ever used PhoneGap in Linux?
Never heard of it.
Best iPhone/iPad emulator?
The one that comes with the iOS SDK. http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/ios/index.action
Cheap Apple development box?
A Mac mini. http://www.apple.com/macmini/
Thanks, Jack
-- Chris
KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
Message: 4 Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:22:31 -0600 From: Chris Bier chris.bier@cymor.com To: KCLUG kclug@kclug.org Cc: Kclug kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: iOS application on Linux Message-ID: 20111116162231.GO6623@bwv846.cymor.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
You might want to take a look at this mobile platform framework list: http://www.markus-falk.com/mobile-frameworks-comparison-chart/
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 09:02:45PM -0800, Jack wrote:
Thanks Chris,
What I really meant was what is the best development environment on Linux. I'm aware the best environment is on Macs with the official SDK. Deploying, would really just have been a bonus. I have no desire to write iPhone Apps, but my grandson might. He's not in a financial situation to go and buy a Mac or even get a
developer license from Apple. I myself am disinclined to obtain said tools for him. A truly cheap Mac, I might be willing to buy. Cheap as in older, used, discarded, PC hardware, cheap.
I've known about the Objective-C compiler in GNU for years. I've seen the iphone-dev site, which seems abandoned, and thus was not sure even what level of development is possible in Linux.
Was not sure about the VM capabilities either. I have no intentions of clicking through any Apple EULA/NDA. Especially considering the DOJs latest stand on things.
I would allow my underage grandson to do such, except now the DOJ is calling him (and every US minor) a criminal who should be prosecuted,
simply due to the fact: they are minors, the CFAA, and Google's TOS.
For those, new to the story, the DOJ says it's a crime to violate the TOS of a website. Google's TOS forbid minors, because they cannot legally enter into a contract. Hence any minor can't legally use Google without becoming a felon per CFAA. I'm pretty sure just about every teen in America has used Google.
http://www.google.com/accounts/TOS
"2.3 You may not use the Services and may not accept the Terms if (a) you are not of legal age to form a binding contract with Google, or (b) you are a person barred from receiving the Services under the laws of the United States or other countries including the country in which you are resident or from which you use the Services."
Brilliant.
Thanks again, Jack
From: Christofer C. Bell christofer.c.bell@gmail.com To: Jack quiet_celt@yahoo.com Cc: Kclug kclug@kclug.org Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 5:54 PM Subject: Re: iOS application on Linux
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Jack quiet_celt@yahoo.com wrote:
Anyone know if one can write AND deploy iOS applications from Linux?
Not really.? If you're programming for iOS, you're writing against the UI that iOS provides.? Linux doesn't provide the same user interface. That said, Objective-C is available for both.
Debian (and derivatives): gobjc Fedora (and derivatives): libobjc
Anyone ever used PhoneGap in Linux?
Never heard of it.
Best iPhone/iPad emulator?
The one that comes with the iOS SDK. http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/ios/index.action
Cheap Apple development box?
A Mac mini. http://www.apple.com/macmini/
Thanks, Jack
-- Chris
KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
End of KCLUG Digest, Vol 87, Issue 4
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
Well, you will always have the expense of a computer to develop on and usually for the tools, but I believe there is a free dev kit SDK for Android that is multi-platform. As far as the cost to post to the App Store or Android Market, $100 for an acct is a pretty low barrier to entry and it is a barrier to spammer scum. Albeit a low barrier, but a barrier non-the-less and I believe that a person has to prove who they are somehow. I find that the cost, the proving who you are and the rating system keeps most of the troll jackasses out of the game.
If we just had a SEAL team to hunt down virus and malware programmers... Hey, I can dream, can't I?
Brian Kelsay
From: On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 12:20 AM To: Richard Allen; kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: KCLUG Digest, Vol 87, Issue 4
Yes, that was my original feeling, when doing my own searching.
Well, I guess our final project will be an Android game App. Seems to be a bit more open and Free as in freedom and beer, although I'm sure there's a cost there to deploy also.
Can't say, I'm not surprised that an Apple solution would be excruciating from the outside. releasing an app could always be done the Hackintosh way, but there's still all that pain just getting there.
With Android and my "course", he'll learn a little: Linux, HTML5, CSS, javascript, Java, and some Android development. Along with math and physics and such.
A bit better rounded. Still, there's that huge closed, pay to play, market. Who knows, Android may be the shot in the arm FOSS needs to build a really huge base.
Thanks everyone, your comments, as always are enlightening and useful.
Jack
The SDK for Android is free. It runs under Eclipse, which is also free. Ease-of-use by platform, in descending order: Mac, Linux, Winderz.
Macs automagically find all Android devices connected via USB. Linux may need a wee bit of tweaking in /etc one-time in order to get a device set right and recognized as an Android device. Winderz devices require a driver from the device manufacturer. (Probability of being able to use a cheap generic Chinese tablet: epsilon)
All you need is root access (I believe) and a USB connection in order to install new apps from your computer.
The Amazon Android App Store is $99/year, which they're waiving for the first year.
https://developer.amazon.com/help/faq.html
Claimer: I've written Android apps and deployed them to a cheap Chinese tablet from my Hackintosh. I've watched the SDK fail to find it from Winderz. I haven't tried it on Linux, although I installed the dev tools without problem on Ubuntu 10.4 LTS.
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 7:53 AM, Kelsay, Brian - OCIO-ITS, Kansas City, MO < brian.kelsay@kcc.usda.gov> wrote:
Well, you will always have the expense of a computer to develop on and usually for the tools, but I believe there is a free dev kit SDK for Android that is multi-platform. As far as the cost to post to the App Store or Android Market, $100 for an acct is a pretty low barrier to entry and it is a barrier to spammer scum. Albeit a low barrier, but a barrier non-the-less and I believe that a person has to prove who they are somehow. I find that the cost, the proving who you are and the rating system keeps most of the troll jackasses out of the game.****
If we just had a SEAL team to hunt down virus and malware programmers… Hey, I can dream, can’t I?****
Brian Kelsay ****
*From:* *On Behalf Of *Jack *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2011 12:20 AM *To:* Richard Allen; kclug@kclug.org
*Subject:* Re: KCLUG Digest, Vol 87, Issue 4****
Yes, that was my original feeling, when doing my own searching.****
Well, I guess our final project will be an Android game App. Seems to be a bit more open and Free as in freedom and beer, although I'm sure there's a cost there to deploy also.****
Can't say, I'm not surprised that an Apple solution would be excruciating from the outside. ****
releasing an app could always be done the Hackintosh way, but there's still all that pain just getting there.****
With Android and my "course", he'll learn a little: Linux, HTML5, CSS, javascript, Java, and some Android development. Along with math and physics and such.****
A bit better rounded. Still, there's that huge closed, pay to play, market. Who knows, Android may be the shot in the arm FOSS needs to build a really huge base.****
Thanks everyone, your comments, as always are enlightening and useful.****
Jack****
KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
I have found that a Mac Mini is the perfect development platform. Sure it costs money, but any serious developer/techie knows thats what this profession costs. My main reasoning is very simple.
I can develop for OSX, Windows, Linux, BSD, iPhone, Android, Megoo, BlackBerry, Windows Phone 7 all for one investment of $599. Since the Mac can run any OS my options are unlimited.
As far as other costs: It costs nothing to develop and deploy a HTML/JS/CSS application for All platforms. Android and iOS have the same abilities for web apps. It costs nothing to develop for Android. It only costs to have your app listed in Android Market (Was $25 now i think it is $100). You do not need your app in Android Market to distribute it. It costs nothing to develop for iPhone. It only costs to distribute your apps directly to users, and release into the Apple App store. ($99) Neither platform restricts your ability to run your software on your hardware. The only restrictions are for distribution to 3rd party users.
As far as App stores go. Sure it "Looks" like Apple only controls the App Store because "they want to control everything". Seriously though, what it takes to publish an app on the App Store is very important to mobile users.
Apple checks for: Known Malware Battery Usage (To maintain a good mobile experience to Apple's own customers) Performance Quality Excessive problems Feature completeness
These are all standards a Mobile developer should hold himself to already. So do good work, you won't have any issues. Your users also won't have any issues. If corporations and individuals could enforce these same rules on themselves I'm sure Apple would be more than happy to give up the work load of having to QA every app before release. However, the "free" as in do whatever you want Android Market has shown that WE the developers aren't ready for such responsibility.
Apple's App store QA might not be perfect, but at least they care enough to try and protect people that have invested in their products.
Tom
On Nov 17, 2011, at 7:53 AM, Kelsay, Brian - OCIO-ITS, Kansas City, MO wrote:
Well, you will always have the expense of a computer to develop on and usually for the tools, but I believe there is a free dev kit SDK for Android that is multi-platform. As far as the cost to post to the App Store or Android Market, $100 for an acct is a pretty low barrier to entry and it is a barrier to spammer scum. Albeit a low barrier, but a barrier non-the-less and I believe that a person has to prove who they are somehow. I find that the cost, the proving who you are and the rating system keeps most of the troll jackasses out of the game.
If we just had a SEAL team to hunt down virus and malware programmers… Hey, I can dream, can’t I?
Brian Kelsay
From: On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 12:20 AM To: Richard Allen; kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: KCLUG Digest, Vol 87, Issue 4
Yes, that was my original feeling, when doing my own searching.
Well, I guess our final project will be an Android game App. Seems to be a bit more open and Free as in freedom and beer, although I'm sure there's a cost there to deploy also.
Can't say, I'm not surprised that an Apple solution would be excruciating from the outside. releasing an app could always be done the Hackintosh way, but there's still all that pain just getting there.
With Android and my "course", he'll learn a little: Linux, HTML5, CSS, javascript, Java, and some Android development. Along with math and physics and such.
A bit better rounded. Still, there's that huge closed, pay to play, market. Who knows, Android may be the shot in the arm FOSS needs to build a really huge base.
Thanks everyone, your comments, as always are enlightening and useful.
Jack _______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
You forgot one thing, or two, in the list that Apple checks for.
Here let me fix that: Apple checks for: Known Malware Battery Usage (To maintain a good mobile experience to Apple's own customers) Performance Quality Excessive problems Feature completeness Applications that compete with Apple made Apps Applications that conflict with Apple's approved list Applications written by Google Adult applications Application of the day to remove just because they can.
There. I don't have any Apple iAnything, but do monitor the news (not just /.). Apple has removed lots of popular, feature-rich, stable, applications that didn't meet any of your lists issues. With Apple it is and will continue to be about control. There is some good to some of the control they go for, but it tends to be a bit over the top, for me. Don't get me wrong, they make good stuff. They are concerned with quality, but even they fall down sometimes.
But see your second paragraph is what really bothers me about Apple. Linux is no less a workable and stable development environment than OSX, there is no technical reason why I should not be able to develop Windows, OSX, BSD, iPhone, etc in Linux.
I understand, the need for spending money on a dev environment. I have thousands and thousands invested in such things for my company. But unemployed teenagers don't have that luxury. Should he develop some talent and a real desire, and commitment to doing such development, I might invest in something for him. I avoid EULAs as much as I can. Which is why any EULA is in my company name, and company owned, and I have a contract with my company specifying I am not personally bound by any EULA or choices of the company, outside of the company. As long as I do not use company software for personal development, I am in the clear. And I don't. I've switched over to as much FOSS in my company as I can.
PS, your options are limited as long as you are under NDAs and EULAs.
Thanks, Jack
________________________________ From: Thomas Bruno tom@naveoss.com To: Kclug kclug@kclug.org Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 10:40 AM Subject: Re: iOS application on Linux
I have found that a Mac Mini is the perfect development platform. Sure it costs money, but any serious developer/techie knows thats what this profession costs. My main reasoning is very simple.
I can develop for OSX, Windows, Linux, BSD, iPhone, Android, Megoo, BlackBerry, Windows Phone 7 all for one investment of $599. Since the Mac can run any OS my options are unlimited.
As far as other costs: It costs nothing to develop and deploy a HTML/JS/CSS application for All platforms. Android and iOS have the same abilities for web apps. It costs nothing to develop for Android. It only costs to have your app listed in Android Market (Was $25 now i think it is $100). You do not need your app in Android Market to distribute it. It costs nothing to develop for iPhone. It only costs to distribute your apps directly to users, and release into the Apple App store. ($99) Neither platform restricts your ability to run your software on your hardware. The only restrictions are for distribution to 3rd party users.
As far as App stores go. Sure it "Looks" like Apple only controls the App Store because "they want to control everything". Seriously though, what it takes to publish an app on the App Store is very important to mobile users.
Apple checks for: Known Malware Battery Usage (To maintain a good mobile experience to Apple's own customers) Performance Quality Excessive problems Feature completeness
These are all standards a Mobile developer should hold himself to already. So do good work, you won't have any issues. Your users also won't have any issues. If corporations and individuals could enforce these same rules on themselves I'm sure Apple would be more than happy to give up the work load of having to QA every app before release. However, the "free" as in do whatever you want Android Market has shown that WE the developers aren't ready for such responsibility.
Apple's App store QA might not be perfect, but at least they care enough to try and protect people that have invested in their products.
Tom
On Nov 17, 2011, at 7:53 AM, Kelsay, Brian - OCIO-ITS, Kansas City, MO wrote:
Well, you will always have the expense of a computer to develop on and usually for the tools, but I believe there is a free dev kit SDK for Android that is multi-platform. As far as the cost to post to the App Store or Android Market, $100 for an acct is a pretty low barrier to entry and it is a barrier to spammer scum. Albeit a low barrier, but a barrier non-the-less and I believe that a person has to prove who they are somehow. I find that the cost, the proving who you are and the rating system keeps most of the troll jackasses out of the game.
If we just had a SEAL team to hunt down virus and malware programmers… Hey, I can dream, can’t I? Brian Kelsay From: On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 12:20 AM To: Richard Allen; kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: KCLUG Digest, Vol 87, Issue 4 Yes, that was my original feeling, when doing my own searching. Well, I guess our final project will be an Android game App. Seems to be a bit more open and Free as in freedom and beer, although I'm sure there's a cost there to deploy also. Can't say, I'm not surprised that an Apple solution would be excruciating from the outside. releasing an app could always be done the Hackintosh way, but there's still all that pain just getting there. With Android and my "course", he'll learn a little: Linux, HTML5, CSS, javascript, Java, and some Android development. Along with math and physics and such. A bit better rounded. Still, there's that huge closed, pay to play, market. Who knows, Android may be the shot in the arm FOSS needs to build a really huge base. Thanks everyone, your comments, as always are enlightening and useful. Jack
_______________________________________________
KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
ms Feature completeness Applications that compete with Apple made Apps Applications that conflict with Apple's approved list Applications written by Google Adult applications Application of the day to remove just because they can.
Well, I recommend not submitting apps written by Google unless you are Google. I know you're trying to be funny but, Google has pulled their own apps cause and i quote Google: "Sorry, We messed up". http://mashable.com/2011/11/02/google-pulls-gmail-app-for-iphone-ipad-sorry-...
I've taken a small sub section of just the standard apps and listed them here as an example of how mis-knowledge spreads because someone didn't write a high enough quality app to get approved. I'm not a believer in FUD. Its what companies like Microsoft use to hold Linux down. What are we if we use FUD to attempt to rise ourselves up.
As an iOS developer You know damn good and well the Terms of selling on Apple's store. The people that are complaining are the ones that ignore the rules and invest in writing the app anyway. You know what, thats stupid of them, suck it up. I don't know of any developer who has followed the rules, produced quality and not been completely happy that their App is in the store.
Apps that Compete &/or duplicate functionality with Apple Apps:
<Apple App Name> : 3rd Party App name & URL
Safari: Atomic Web Browser http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/atomic-web-browser-browse/id347929410?mt=8 Safari: iCab Mobile (Web Browser) http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/icab-mobile-web-browser/id308111628?mt=8 Apple's Message App: Google Voice: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gmail/id422689480?mt=8 Apple's Photo Gallery: Panoramio: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/panoramio/id331007973?mt=8 iRemote: Google TV Remote: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-tv-remote/id422137859?mt=8 Find My Friends: Google Latitude: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-latitude/id306586497?mt=8 Photo Stream & Camera: Panoramio: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/panoramio/id331007973?mt=8 iTunes Video/iCloud: Netfix Panoramio: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/panoramio/id331007973?mt=8 iBooks: Google Books: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-books/id400989007?mt=8 iBooks: B&N Nook http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/nook-for-iphone-from-barnes/id384910586?mt=8 iBooks: Kindle http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/nook-for-iphone-from-barnes/id384910586?mt=8 Flixster: iTunes Video Streaming http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/movies-by-flixster-rotten/id284235722?mt=8 Apple's Mail.app: Gmail: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gmail/id422689480?mt=8 GarageBand: To many Music apps to list. EVEN on the front page. but example Pianist: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pianist/id284622652?mt=8 iCamera: Camera+ http://itunes.apple.com/us/app//id329670577?mt=8 iNotes: Evernote http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/evernote/id281796108?mt=8 iMessage: gTalk by Indie developer http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gtalk-chat-for-google-talk/id385522846?mt=8 iMessage: AIM http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/aim/id306610781?mt=8 iMessage: AIM http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/aim-for-ipad/id364193698?mt=8 iMessage: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/monal/id317711500?mt=8 Find My Phone: Google Latitude: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-latitude/id306586497?mt=8 iDisk: Drop box http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dropbox/id327630330?mt=8 iWork: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/notability-handwriting-note/id360593530?mt=8 Newsstand: Kindle http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/nook-for-iphone-from-barnes/id384910586?mt=8 Newsstand: B&N Nook http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/nook-for-iphone-from-barnes/id384910586?mt=8 Newsstand: Google Books: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-books/id400989007?mt=8
Google Apps on the App store:
Google+: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google/id447119634?mt=8 Google Search: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-search/id284815942?mt=8 Google Earth: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-earth/id293622097?mt=8 Google Translate: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-translate/id414706506?mt=8 Gmail: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gmail/id422689480?mt=8 Google Voice: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gmail/id422689480?mt=8 Google Books: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-books/id400989007?mt=8 Google Places: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-places/id406513617?mt=8 Google Latitude: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-latitude/id306586497?mt=8 Google Shopper: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-shopper/id416091721?mt=8 Blogger: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/blogger/id459407288?mt=8 Google TV Remote: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-tv-remote/id422137859?mt=8 Boutiques: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/boutiques/id402152669?mt=8 Google Catalogs: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-catalogs/id453571756?mt=8 Panoramio: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/panoramio/id331007973?mt=8 Google Authenticator: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-authenticator/id388497605?mt=8
But see your second paragraph is what really bothers me about Apple. Linux is no less a workable and stable development environment than OSX, there is no technical reason why I should not be able to develop Windows, OSX, BSD, iPhone, etc in Linux.
Well, its is always harder to developer for the platform you don't run. It doesn't matter what your environment. When you start entering into the Embedded world, its not as easy to just "start developing". The compiler doesn't run on the device so your PC has to have tools that can generate run-able code for a architecture your PC doesn't even run. If it hasn't been done for you by the company you have to build cross compilers, scripts that work on every platform, etc. These things really add up. As the owner of the Embedded/Mobile platform you end up supporting your developer environments for Every single OS more than the actual product you're building the environments for.
If you're wanting to go more with Desktop applications the choices are much more easy to get an experience that works on OSX/Windows/Linux/BSD. I do it every day. You just have to make choices that support cross-platform development. If you're going to be building GUI interfaces, use Qt4. If you are going to be doing a lot of back end services etc make sure you use libraries that work on Unix and Windows. (I've almost had to make NO development changes for OSX vrs Linux). Most of the "porting" comes from trying to support Unix and Windows. Use OSS software like PostgreSQL and MySQL instead of MSSQL or Oracle.
Also, if you stick with something like OpenGL ES, your son will find that when he does go to start writing games on any Android/iOS/Mobile device that most of what he knows actually applies to all the platforms.
Tom
did you take a look at GNUstep, I think it would be a good starting point for someone. http://www.gnustep.org/
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 5:40 PM, Thomas Bruno tom@naveoss.com wrote:
I have found that a Mac Mini is the perfect development platform. Sure it costs money, but any serious developer/techie knows thats what this profession costs. My main reasoning is very simple. I can develop for OSX, Windows, Linux, BSD, iPhone, Android, Megoo, BlackBerry, Windows Phone 7 all for one investment of $599. Since the Mac can run any OS my options are unlimited. As far as other costs: It costs nothing to develop and deploy a HTML/JS/CSS application for All platforms. Android and iOS have the same abilities for web apps. It costs nothing to develop for Android. It only costs to have your app listed in Android Market (Was $25 now i think it is $100). You do not need your app in Android Market to distribute it. It costs nothing to develop for iPhone. It only costs to distribute your apps directly to users, and release into the Apple App store. ($99) Neither platform restricts your ability to run your software on your hardware. The only restrictions are for distribution to 3rd party users.
As far as App stores go. Sure it "Looks" like Apple only controls the App Store because "they want to control everything". Seriously though, what it takes to publish an app on the App Store is very important to mobile users.
Apple checks for: Known Malware Battery Usage (To maintain a good mobile experience to Apple's own customers) Performance Quality Excessive problems Feature completeness These are all standards a Mobile developer should hold himself to already. So do good work, you won't have any issues. Your users also won't have any issues. If corporations and individuals could enforce these same rules on themselves I'm sure Apple would be more than happy to give up the work load of having to QA every app before release. However, the "free" as in do whatever you want Android Market has shown that WE the developers aren't ready for such responsibility. Apple's App store QA might not be perfect, but at least they care enough to try and protect people that have invested in their products.
Tom
On Nov 17, 2011, at 7:53 AM, Kelsay, Brian - OCIO-ITS, Kansas City, MO wrote:
Well, you will always have the expense of a computer to develop on and usually for the tools, but I believe there is a free dev kit SDK for Android that is multi-platform. As far as the cost to post to the App Store or Android Market, $100 for an acct is a pretty low barrier to entry and it is a barrier to spammer scum. Albeit a low barrier, but a barrier non-the-less and I believe that a person has to prove who they are somehow. I find that the cost, the proving who you are and the rating system keeps most of the troll jackasses out of the game.
If we just had a SEAL team to hunt down virus and malware programmers… Hey, I can dream, can’t I?
Brian Kelsay
From: On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 12:20 AM To: Richard Allen; kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: KCLUG Digest, Vol 87, Issue 4
Yes, that was my original feeling, when doing my own searching.
Well, I guess our final project will be an Android game App. Seems to be a bit more open and Free as in freedom and beer, although I'm sure there's a cost there to deploy also.
Can't say, I'm not surprised that an Apple solution would be excruciating from the outside. releasing an app could always be done the Hackintosh way, but there's still all that pain just getting there.
With Android and my "course", he'll learn a little: Linux, HTML5, CSS, javascript, Java, and some Android development. Along with math and physics and such.
A bit better rounded. Still, there's that huge closed, pay to play, market. Who knows, Android may be the shot in the arm FOSS needs to build a really huge base.
Thanks everyone, your comments, as always are enlightening and useful.
Jack _______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
-
Andrew Beals -
Jack -
Kelsay, Brian - OCIO-ITS, Kansas City, MO -
Mike Dupont -
Richard Allen -
Thomas Bruno