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Looking for Tom Margrave
by Ed Allen 29 Jan '07

29 Jan '07

Does Tom still read this list ? Does anybody here know how to get in touch with him ?

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RE: DSL minimized was Re: Political Blather
by Kelsay, Brian - Kansas City, MO 27 Jan '07

27 Jan '07

Ethereal would not be something an average user needs right off the bat. I just looked and ethereal is not avail. for DSL. If you need it on a rescue disk, you can build a .dsl, .uci, or .unc pkg and place it on a customized DSL CD so that it loads on boot. You can also submit the pkg to the group for hosting at the mirrors so that everyone else can use it. ftp://ftp.oss.cc.gatech.edu/pub/linux/distributions/damnsmall/current/do cumentation/Howto_create_.dsl_application.pdf ftp://ftp.oss.cc.gatech.edu/pub/linux/distributions/damnsmall/current/do cumentation/MyDSLhowto.pdf >-----Original Message----- >From: Jared >Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:02 PM > >> Eh... if DSL is so small, why does it need to be compressed >to fit on a CD? > >Because the CD fits in your wallet. It's a 50MB business-card CD. > >Spend a few minutes on the DSL site. It's very cool, even if >they left out ethereal... :) > >http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/usb.html > >-Jared >

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RE: DSL minimized was Re: Political Blather
by Kelsay, Brian - Kansas City, MO 26 Jan '07

26 Jan '07

The point of compressing is to fit more on the CD. Knoppix does this too. DSL just limits itself to 50MB as a line in the sand they will not cross. There have been others like Puppy and Flonix that crossed the size border to add even more of what they thought was useful. Flonix went commercial and Puppy has gone off in their own direction, but is still very similar to DSL. DSL has forced itself to chop out that which is not needed for a LiveCD, like apt and dpkg and replace standard gnu-utils with busybox and writing their own apps in lua, like the mixer applet, the myDSL interface and the control panel applet. Lua is a little like Perl, very small and very powerful. If you wanted to build your own DSL that was not compressed, I'd imagine you would end up with something like 2x the size requirements, 100MB. I just remembered one other thing about DSL's small size, it allows you PLENTY of space on a full-sized custom build CD at 650MB to add all the extra apps that have been pkged to work with DSL. I've done that before and maxed out a 650MB disk. Games galore and you name it, but I still didn't have room for everything. I mostly did this to see what I could do and to test apps in the repository to see that they worked with new versions of DSL. I had to stop at some point when I got too busy. >-----Original Message----- >From: Luke -Jr >Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:24 PM > >On Wednesday 24 January 2007 14:01, Jared wrote: >> > Eh... if DSL is so small, why does it need to be compressed to fit >> > on a CD? >> >> Because the CD fits in your wallet. It's a 50MB business-card CD. > >Ah, makes sense. ;) >But what would be cooler is a wallet-CD uncompressed that >just boots to a NX terminal or recovery cmd prompt... http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions# How_can_I_have_a_VNC_server_start_automatically_at_boot.3F you can do something similar with the nxclient in the MyDSL repo.

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This is on topic as it affects hardware being ABLE to run Linux at all.
by Oren Beck 26 Jan '07

26 Jan '07

Read this all the way thru and read the Vista report before even considering a response. Flame me for this on anything other than provable errors of FACT and they win.Facts Vs FUD is how we will win this. Earlier tonight I saw an evil usually reserved for pulp horror or similar fantasies That report on Vista as being ":suicide" for MS. I should have read it sooner. This time the precedents seem to endanger ownership as being full control of YOUR property by YOU. And if you think me deranged? The truth is scarier. Take a look at what I fear may be much worse than described if it comes true. http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html The so-called "content protection" schemes that are being demanded of hardware producers seem potentially able to render Linux unusable on newer hardware. The concept that hardware will obey it's owner is under total refutation in the eyes of MS and the "content industry" Think RIAA, MPAA,their foreign counterparts..All in an evil pact. The stakes are nothing less than their desire to make ownership as control of our hardware in THEIR hands and NOT ours any longer. Such hardware will ignore us to their profit. Want to bet our freedom to own computers that obey us and not them on their honor? I propose that before this insanity goes any farther we all place our signatures and voices in opposition to it.I wonder if perhaps a month or several of boycott would work? Our signatures on purchase orders and credit cards only to companies that say NO to this insanity. Our voices carrying testimony against the theft of full ownership attempted by MS and the "content industry" . Consider a May, June , July with even a 50% drop in sales by hardware and content companies not renouncing the evil pacts? And a 50% increase for those that DO renounce! We are the ones who direct more IT budget than we give ourselves credit for. We may actually be able to replicate Atlas Shrugging. OR close enough to alter the future. "Where do you want to go today that they will let you go to?"

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WOSWJU
by James R. Sissel 25 Jan '07

25 Jan '07

Interesting, how to start a long running, controversial subject. I want to try this. So I ask: "What OS would Jesus use?"

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FW: Your Daily Dilbert
by Jeremy Fowler 25 Jan '07

25 Jan '07

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Re: from the libertarian newspaper
by Jared 25 Jan '07

25 Jan '07

>> I have been a socialist. I have been a libertarian. I have >> been an anarchist. And not just from the armchair. I have been >> arrested as an anarchist protesting the government. > > I think a funny scene in a political comedy -- sort of like the scene in > Woody Allen's Zelig where Zelig tries to play cello in a marching band -- > would be someone bringing an armchair with them to a rally or protest > event, getting arrested along with their armchair, seeing the character > in a jail cell with his armchair with him. That would be funny, > would it not? Yes, and a powerful parable as well. Perhaps he could receive a more severe sentence than the flag burners. And in other news, > The master shook his head, and said "No shoes will let me outrun a lion. > Fortunately, I don't need to do that. I only have to run faster than the > slowest of my companions." With this, the students were enlightened. Some teachers give the running shoes to the slowest student, and provide a whole nuther kind of enlightenment. And now for something completly on topic: >> Linux *is* centralized, in a hiearchy even. Anti-"IP" is not >> anti-property, but rather anti-usury. Socialism is by definition >> statist. > > I was with you on your comments (and strangely even agreed with them) > until I got to "anti-usury." I am against "intellectual property" as > defined by software patents, but I can't make the connection to usury. Usury. The well-known "Microsoft Tax." Made sense to me. -Jared

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RE: Political Blather
by Kelsay, Brian - Kansas City, MO 25 Jan '07

25 Jan '07

Don't flip-flop on this subject. You wanted a dead easy system for people you know that are computer illiterate, that they couldn't possibly screw-up, that wouldn't get infected, that wouldn't leave personal info on the system. I gave that to you. DSL or KioskCD. If you start trying to make a thinclient system you run into a real big problem, a server. You need something to host the OS image and apps they use. This requires a separate box, just so some people can surf. This only makes sense if you have a setup with multiple stations for surfing. Say in a library, school, business, shopping mall or if you have a passel of kids like hald and you want several similar, low requirement PCs so each may have their own. And it requires someone that knows how to setup and maintain the setup. If a person has broadband and ONE PC, you need something that will just boot and go. If you have 2 or more, you need either a firewall appliance, router, wifi/switch/router, gateway PC, whatever. One of the good points about a KisokCD if you have one PC is that you don't have to worry about viruses, trojans, spyware, adware, zombies, anything like that. Set your kid loose for his allotted hour after booting to the KioskCD and then reboot the PC without it when he is done. If your friend or whatever graduates from just web browsing or wants a more capable, yet still simple, low requirement system, you can give him a full DSL distro. What is the big deal? If you still want to go the thinclient route, look at http://www.thinstation.org/ You can build your own CD from that and it is as small as you will likely get. You can even use ThinStation-O-Matic to customize it. http://struktur.kemi.dtu.dk/thinstation/TSoM/ Just be careful on the page where it allows you to load a build image. If you just went thru and made all kinds of changes, you don't want to hit the "load" button. It makes changes to the selections to match the example build files or your custom build file you created before. This TSoM looks a lot like what we were talking about in IRC the other day for an online custom ISO build setup. >-----Original Message----- >From: Oren Beck >Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:14 PM > >On 1/23/07, David Nicol wrote: >> On 1/23/07, Oren Beck wrote: >> > Ok- When I mentioned usability - it meant to appliance operators. >> >> Hmm. network drivers plus X plus lwm and instead of giving any kind >> of log-in the system just starts Firefox? AJAX >drag-and-drop kinds of things live inside the web browser (the ghost of a fifteen year old >> issue of "InfoMoment" screams "you mean the thin client?") instead of in the >> window manager, so they aren't a problem. >> >> Let the appliance operators use the Google document editors if they >> must have productivity software. >The summary of your comments to my understanding is calling >for a "thin client". >Ok- let-s work with this a bit- how thin can we go? > >What of a floppy based or CD based distro that has the minimal >hardware detect to bring up a net session, then by default >bring up a browser with any advanced config done thru web >interfaces. That is, if the target users for this proposal >even would do so. >The kiosk mode locking is indeed a Very Good Thing for public >users or the skill lacking relatives we support. Then again- >an intermediate level of "are you sure?" >guarded settings may cover the exceptions.

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RE: DSL minimized was Re: Political Blather
by Kelsay, Brian - Kansas City, MO 25 Jan '07

25 Jan '07

Ask and ye shall receive. There is an nxclient that is pkged for DSL, but it is older, from 2005. You could drop it in a /mydsl directory on a customized DSL disk and it would load at boot. You can also do VNC at boot, see the wiki. You might have to alter the .xinitrc file. If you got ambitious, you could create an updated pkg of NXClient. http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/wiki/index.php/Category:MyDSL http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions# How_can_I_have_a_VNC_server_start_automatically_at_boot.3F >-----Original Message----- >From: Luke -Jr >Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:24 PM > >On Wednesday 24 January 2007 14:01, Jared wrote: >> > Eh... if DSL is so small, why does it need to be compressed to fit >> > on a CD? >> >> Because the CD fits in your wallet. It's a 50MB business-card CD. > >Ah, makes sense. ;) >But would would be cooler is a wallet-CD uncompressed that >just boots to a NX terminal or recovery cmd prompt...

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Where is it written? (Actually GPL)
by David Nicol 24 Jan '07

24 Jan '07

On 1/24/07, Luke -Jr <luke(a)dashjr.org> wrote: > incompatibly licensed .o blob, the GPL forbids its distribution. the GPL doesn't forbid anything. The GPL permits. The GPL permits this, and permits that. Where does GPL forbid. Chapter, verse, and quotation.

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