KCLUG November 2004

kclug@kclug.org

54 participants
130 discussions

screen scrollback
by Jonathan Hutchins 01 Dec '04

01 Dec '04

Regarding some recent discussion of getting a convenient scrollback buffer working with screen in an Xterm: I notice that Ctrl-PgUp works fine in Putty under windows.

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RE: Game programming
by Brian Densmore 01 Dec '04

01 Dec '04

> -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Kelsay > > And suddenly I was transported to a land where all Calculus > mysteriously took place in New York state... Frankly, I was > quite confused by that. Now I must know what anagrams have > to do with game programming? Curiouser and curiouser. And > so I followed the rabbit down the hole. What would you do? > Well the answer is quite simple really. Having gone to college in NY, it is my only reference for Calculus. I took Calculus I - IV at junior college, but the University only had 3 semesters of Calculus. So I + II + III + IV = I + II + III and every student who took I-IV get screwed out of 4 credits. Hence my statement that we need to know whether Jason's Calc III is part of a Calc I-III series or a Calc I-IV series. Secondly, write a program to solve anagrams and then you'll have a clue as to why I said having a knowledge of anagrams is helpful. (On top of which solving anagrams is a brain exercising activity, it works multiple centers. Especially 2D and 3D anagrams. ) ;') Bend is ran more P.S. As I like to say "I don't care how they do it here, I'm from NY."

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RE: Multiple desktop clients per kdm server
by Brian Densmore 30 Nov '04

30 Nov '04

I believe that the tty2 could be written as tty[1-6] (where [1-6] means to write in any one of tty1 ...) and still have the same effect. It it the vt7 and vt8 that tells X where to place the XWindow. I think I am correct in saying that the tty1 is telling X where to launch it from. It would be Alt-f8 to get to the screen. Provinding that X is properly configured the vt7 and vt8 could be left out, but it's safer to have them there for sanity's sake. The msg logs issues could be important. It might be that only the messages from tty1 are being recorded. It's interesting stuff and a worthwhile research topic. I'll try the tty1 and tty2 methods tonight and report back my findings. Brian Densmore > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Kelsay > > > So, for clarity sake, the :0 is the first Xserver instance > and it is being attached to the 7th virtual terminal (vt7). > The :1 is the 2nd Xserver and it is attached to the 8th > virtual terminal. > Or is it tty1 and 2 respectively? I'm curious if he would be > able to hit Alt-f8 and view the 2nd xserver session or would > it be Alt-f2? If I am incorrect then please correct my > logic. Would he actually be able to view the xserver session > or only get the msg logs that went to the terminal before the > xserver launched? > > Just some idle thoughts. > > Brian Kelsay > > >>> Jeremy Turner <> 11/30/04 01:46PM >>> > On Mon, Nov 29, 2004 at 11:13:02AM -0600, Brian Densmore wrote: > > I'm running kdm and would like to know if anyone is > > running more than one desktop simultaneously? > > Check the /etc/kdm/kde3/kdm/Xservers file. I have a line that says: > > :0 local@tty1 /usr/X11R6/bin/X -nolisten tcp vt7 > > My guess is that you would add a line just below it that says: > > :1 local@tty2 /usr/X11R6/bin/X -nolisten tcp vt8 >

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Re: Multiple desktop clients per kdm server
by Brian Kelsay 30 Nov '04

30 Nov '04

So, for clarity sake, the :0 is the first Xserver instance and it is being attached to the 7th virtual terminal (vt7). The :1 is the 2nd Xserver and it is attached to the 8th virtual terminal. Or is it tty1 and 2 respectively? I'm curious if he would be able to hit Alt-f8 and view the 2nd xserver session or would it be Alt-f2? If I am incorrect then please correct my logic. Would he actually be able to view the xserver session or only get the msg logs that went to the terminal before the xserver launched? Just some idle thoughts. Brian Kelsay >>> Jeremy Turner <> 11/30/04 01:46PM >>> On Mon, Nov 29, 2004 at 11:13:02AM -0600, Brian Densmore wrote: > I'm running kdm and would like to know if anyone is > running more than one desktop simultaneously? Check the /etc/kdm/kde3/kdm/Xservers file. I have a line that says: :0 local@tty1 /usr/X11R6/bin/X -nolisten tcp vt7 My guess is that you would add a line just below it that says: :1 local@tty2 /usr/X11R6/bin/X -nolisten tcp vt8 Additionally, if you're not too concerned about physical security, you can put a section on the /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc line that will autologin your user on vt7 and your wife's user on vt8. I don't use kdm, so I don't know exactly how that would look, but the top of the kdmrc file looks like it is possible.

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RE: Multiple desktop clients per kdm server
by Brian Densmore 30 Nov '04

30 Nov '04

Cool! I'll try that tonight. I wasn't sure if I needed to do something like that or whether to add 0:,1: or 0: 1: to another line (forget which one). Yes it is possible to do the autologin from kdm and it's not something I'm interested in trying. Although my wife would be very thankful for that and if she ever finds out, may ask me why I can't do that. She's constantly complaining about how there's just too many steps to do to do anything. One of these days I'll write her a bunch of scripts and add a gui frontend and place all her regular functions on the desktop for her, only a click away. Sheesh! Thanks, Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeremy Turner > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2004 at 11:13:02AM -0600, Brian Densmore wrote: > > I'm running kdm and would like to know if anyone is > > running more than one desktop simultaneously? > > Check the /etc/kdm/kde3/kdm/Xservers file. I have a line that says: > > :0 local@tty1 /usr/X11R6/bin/X -nolisten tcp vt7 > > My guess is that you would add a line just below it that says: > > :1 local@tty2 /usr/X11R6/bin/X -nolisten tcp vt8 > > Additionally, if you're not too concerned about physical security, you > can put a section on the /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc line that will autologin > your user on vt7 and your wife's user on vt8. I don't use kdm, so I > don't know exactly how that would look, but the top of the kdmrc file > looks like it is possible. > > HTH, > > Jeremy > _______________________________________________ > Kclug mailing list > Kclug(a)kclug.org > http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug >

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Re: Game programming--my $0.02
by Isaac C. 30 Nov '04

30 Nov '04

--- kclug-request(a)kclug.org wrote: > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:20:26 -0600 (CST) > From: rsobba(a)kcnet.com > Subject: Game programming > To: kclug(a)kclug.org > Message-ID: > <55888.144.73.71.1.1101752426.squirrel(a)144.73.71.1> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > I am not a gamer but an on again off again home OOP > programmer. I need > something to keep my interest up while I am > learning. Have any of you done > any game programming? I am wanting to program in C++ > and Open GL but am > curious about the graphics end of it. Will I need to > create images using a > package like Adobe Illustrator first or is this all > done somehow within > Open GL. > > Thanks in advance. > Rick > > There are, of course, many types of games in the world. Whether or not yours would require something like Open GL, Adobe Illustrator and/or a knowledge of differential calculus, linear algebra, fast forier (sp) transforms, bits of assembly language, and (not mentioned yet) collections of models, textures, and sounds depends entirely upon what sort of game you eventually decide to attempt to create. May I suggest starting simply? and starting small? After all, you say your primary goal is merely to keep your skills as a programmer up. You could, for example, spend some time and effort making a version of checkers or Othello or something, and there'd still be some 2D graphics work to be done and, optionally, some sound work. If you chose to allow single player play, there'd be plenty more to be done in working on the AI, and the neat part is it wouldn't require calculus to get the job done. (But it would still probably be helpful one way or another.) Although, I suppose if you were going to try and come up with a really nifty AI, you'd want a thorough knowledge of various logic puzzle solving hueristics often used in such games--like min-max and all that. But a neat part here is, if you don't mind re-inventing a poor imitation of a wheel, you could just bang out a long series of if-elseif-elseif-...-else statements to try and get the computer playing in a not-pathetic manner and, in the process, you'd be learning a whole lot about what works for your AI and what doesn't. Then afterwards, you could open up some books on AI and Linear Programming to try to help shed more light on how to make the AI work better. (This would probably involve reinventing it from the ground up--at least it always seems to for some reason.) ===== -- Furry cows moo and decompress. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page � Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com

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Multiple desktop clients per kdm server
by Brian Densmore 30 Nov '04

30 Nov '04

I'm running kdm and would like to know if anyone is running more than one desktop simultaneously? Because of my wife's computer (il)literacy I currently run two desktops on my primary desktop PC, so that she always has one session up, but I currently log in to a terminal and xinit /usr/bin/x-window-manager -- :1 & to launch a second desktop for me to use. I'd like X to launch two at boot up so I don't have to do that extra step. I'm sure there is a way to do it, but the documentation isn't specific enough to inform me of the exact syntax I need to do it. Anyone? Thanks, Brian Densmore

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Re: screen scrollback
by Brian Kelsay 30 Nov '04

30 Nov '04

What's the problem? You ask screen to connect to a session of some sort with another PC and of course it should control the buffer of information flowing from that session. The xterm is just a conduit or environment for processing at that point. You could just as easily call screen from a run line (ctl-f2 in KDE, I believe) and not really launch a terminal first. The same happens in ssh when you adjust the environment variables. You've used *nix systems for a while, why is this a mystery? The reason Putty does what you expect, is that it completely overrides all control of the terminal window it appears in. It always launches a new window and takes complete control over it. In an xterm, you can escape out of screen and run other programs or push it to the background and resume it later. I don't generally do that, but you can. It also seems that you are making note of Putty having control over screen, which is running within the Putty terminal. Same reason, Putty assumes full control over the actions within the window, unlike the *nix way of allowing a modicum of control to the running program. You will probably find that if you make the buffer for screen larger than that specified by Putty, that you will be able to scrollback further than expected. You will reach the limits of the larger buffer in screen itself. Clear as mud, right? Wouldn't it be nice if some people gave answers instead of constant complaints about their tools? As always, if you think a feature is lacking in some tool or not working properly, send a bug report or email to the developers of that tool. You may find that it is working exactly as intended or that they think you have a good idea and they will add the requested feature. Good luck getting a big software house to make changes for a single user. Brian Kelsay >>> Jonathan Hutchins <> 11/30/04 07:53AM >>> Once again, I think we've gone off on tangents without attention to the original thread. The problem is that when running screen in a terminal window, screen tends to intercept the scrollback buffer. This means that whatever you've configured for the terminal program is often irrelevant, as is the terminal program's normal scrollback function. While the ability to use screen's buffer-edit function does give you a scrollback, it also transforms the expected, accustomed behavior of the terminal; the ease of scrolling back with a mouse wheel or familiar keys. Somehow, putty overcomes this, and manages to buffer and allow scrollback even within screen sessions. Wouldn't it be nice if common Linux/Xwindows terminal programs did as good a job of integrating with this common Linux utility?

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RE: Game programming
by Brian Kelsay 30 Nov '04

30 Nov '04

And suddenly I was transported to a land where all Calculus mysteriously took place in New York state... Frankly, I was quite confused by that. Now I must know what anagrams have to do with game programming? Curiouser and curiouser. And so I followed the rabbit down the hole. What would you do? Brian Kelsay >>> "Brian Densmore" <> 11/29/04 05:20PM >>> > -----Original Message----- > >>> Jason Clinton 11/29/04 01:30PM >>> > > As a side note, knowledge of Calculus III would be extremely > helpful in > any 3D programming you might do. > > From: Brian Kelsay > > How exactly is Calc III helpful? Just curious. > In order to answer this question, one would have to know what Jason's definition of Calc III is. Not all colleges and universities will define it as the same thing. Certainly, a knowledge of Calculus, Differential Calculus, Linear Algebra, and Engineering Mathematics (prereqs for Engineering Math are Calc I thru IV [or I thru III, depending on where in NY you got your basic Calculus classes] and differential Calculus, at least at SUNY @ Stony Brook) would be helpful. Being able to deal with FFTs is always helpful. Having a good understanding of number theory, and random number generation is good too. I could go on, but y'all get the drift I think, games are highly mathematically intensive and the more you know the better game you can make. A good book on game theory is also good to have around. Also if you're good at anagrams...

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Re: Game programming
by Brian Kelsay 30 Nov '04

30 Nov '04

How exactly is Calc III helpful? Just curious. Brian Kelsay Brian Kelsay >>> Jason Clinton <me(a)jasonclinton.com> 11/29/04 01:30PM >>> As a side note, knowledge of Calculus III would be extremely helpful in any 3D programming you might do.

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KCLUG November 2004