"ethically motivated hackers who work entirely within the law; the whitehats of the whitehats" about
I'm confused. Do it use the term "hacker" properly or as most people use it?
The white hats are the good type of hackers. The black hats are the bad crackers. Think of an old black and white western if you need a mnemonic device. The bad guys always wore black. The good guys always wore white (that stayed amazing clean in the dirt!). On a side note - we pretty much have to accept the general media distorting the term hacker has modified the definition to the point that it has a new meaning that may not be a good one. We don't have to *like* it though. It just means that it will have another definition entry in the dictionary and you have to take the word in context to determine the correct meaning. It is how language evolves. On another side note - If a person calls themselves a hacker - they aren't a hacker. It is like a person calling themselves sexy or the best thing out there. It is a term that has to be given to you by another. I just put in this side note as I have had two people call themselves that in the past week in conversation with me. Hubris. Yuck. On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Charles, Joshua Micah (UMKC-Student) wrote:
"ethically motivated hackers who work entirely within the law; the whitehats of the whitehats" about
I'm confused. Do it use the term "hacker" properly or as most people use it? _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
//========================================================\\ || D. Hageman <dhageman@dracken.com> || \\========================================================//
On Wednesday 16 March 2005 03:02 pm, D. Hageman wrote:
On a side note - we pretty much have to accept the general media distorting the term hacker has modified the definition to the point that it has a new meaning that may not be a good one.
Nonsense. "Hacking" was inclusive of cracking until some self-righteous hackers decided they wanted to set themselves above and apart from those nasty "crackers", so they tried to patch the language by insisting their definition was correct. Never works. Language is what people mean, not what they're supposed to mean.
On another side note - If a person calls themselves a hacker - they aren't a hacker.
Sure they are. The're someone who hacks stuff. Just as a writer can call themselves a hack. It may have a connotation of elite coolness to you, but that's just you. Like I said before, the term and concept pre-date computers. I'm a hardware hacker, I can hack code if I have to, I have friends who have hacked other kinds of systems. True hacking is in the mind of the hacker.
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:53:33 -0600, Jonathan Hutchins <hutchins@tarcanfel.org> wrote:
Never works. Language is what people mean, not what they're supposed to mean.
Thank you Humpty Dumpty! I heard, i think it was on NPR or pacifica, a political campaign advisor discussing communication. He asserted that communication is what is received, not what is sent, so it is important to follow up on whoever you've talked to to make sure that you weren't misconstrued. Sounds like a big headache to me, I'll just stick with the hackers. -- David L Nicol Are you wearing your chicken hat or your egg hat?
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Jonathan Hutchins wrote:
On Wednesday 16 March 2005 03:02 pm, D. Hageman wrote:
On a side note - we pretty much have to accept the general media distorting the term hacker has modified the definition to the point that it has a new meaning that may not be a good one.
Nonsense. "Hacking" was inclusive of cracking until some self-righteous hackers decided they wanted to set themselves above and apart from those nasty "crackers", so they tried to patch the language by insisting their definition was correct. Never works. Language is what people mean, not what they're supposed to mean.
I understand what you are saying and indeed I would agree. The issue is intent. If you are playing a practical joke on someone - it is a hack. If you are malicious then you are cracker. The meaning of a word or phrase in a language is what is understood. I am sure you have never gotten into trouble by someone misunderstanding what you were saying. ;-) The road to hell is paved with good intentions? I forget how the old adage goes . . .
On another side note - If a person calls themselves a hacker - they aren't a hacker.
Sure they are. The're someone who hacks stuff. Just as a writer can call themselves a hack. It may have a connotation of elite coolness to you, but that's just you.
Like I said before, the term and concept pre-date computers. I'm a hardware hacker, I can hack code if I have to, I have friends who have hacked other kinds of systems. True hacking is in the mind of the hacker.
The writer usually calls themselves a hack because in that connotation is means something else. It usually means they are a horrible writer. I may repair my own vehicles, but I won't call myself a mechanic. I may write some, but I won't call myself a writer. I only call myself a programmer since I have been paid to do this task for many years. You are correct that the term pre-dates computers. It used to be a good hack was a good practical joke. As I stated before ... languages evolve. If they didn't - words and definitions wouldn't be added to the dictionary every year. ;-) You know what happens if you don't evolve right? Wait ... n/m that is a debate for another day. :-) //========================================================\\ || D. Hageman <dhageman@dracken.com> || \\========================================================//
--- "D. Hageman" <dhageman@dracken.com> wrote:
On another side note - If a person calls themselves a hacker - they aren't a hacker. It is like a person calling themselves sexy or the best thing out there. It is a term that has to be given to you by another. I just put in this side note as I have had two people call themselves that in the past week in conversation with me. Hubris. Yuck.
I disagree with this comment. While it's possible that anyone who calls themselves a hacker is not necessarily a hacker, it does not preclude a real hacker from calling oneself one. Hacking is the art of taking things apart (and putting them back together) to figure out how things work. That's all it means, there is no elite person that confers hacking status on someone. Hacking is an old term that never gained widespread public knowledge until relatively recently. I have been hacking cars, radios, computers, software, and all manner of electromechanical devices (not necessarily in that order) since I was 7 (that's before Woodstock '69). I take exception to your attempt to promote yourself as the giver of Hackdom. JMHO, Bona-fide Qualified Certified Hacker #6986l334 Brian Densmore __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Jack wrote:
--- "D. Hageman" <dhageman@dracken.com> wrote:
On another side note - If a person calls themselves a hacker - they aren't a hacker. It is like a person calling themselves sexy or the best thing out there. It is a term that has to be given to you by another. I just put in this side note as I have had two people call themselves that in the past week in conversation with me. Hubris. Yuck.
I disagree with this comment. While it's possible that anyone who calls themselves a hacker is not necessarily a hacker, it does not preclude a real hacker from calling oneself one. Hacking is the art of taking things apart (and putting them back together) to figure out how things work. That's all it means, there is no elite person that confers hacking status on someone. Hacking is an old term that never gained widespread public knowledge until relatively recently. I have been hacking cars, radios, computers, software, and all manner of electromechanical devices (not necessarily in that order) since I was 7 (that's before Woodstock '69). I take exception to your attempt to promote yourself as the giver of Hackdom.
Oh! I am misunderstood again! I guess this is yet another example of ... well hell - read my post to Jonathan Hutchins. I don't believe I stated anywhere in my original message that I am the giver of said title. I didn't even say there is some elite person that 'confers hacking status on someone'. I do have some reverence for the title as it was given to people who had done a good hack. You don't go around telling people that you were hacker ... as well ... that would just be bragging. I love your definitions though ... If you get a moment, stop by a book store and pick up a 2005 dictionary and see if the they agree with you. ;-) They are the language experts ... not me. :-) //========================================================\\ || D. Hageman <dhageman@dracken.com> || \\========================================================//
On Wednesday 16 March 2005 01:20 pm, Charles, Joshua Micah (UMKC-Student) wrote:
"ethically motivated hackers who work entirely within the law; the whitehats of the whitehats" about
I'm confused. Do it use the term "hacker" properly or as most people use it?
The term "hacker" includes the concept of "cracker", unless the latter is being used to distinguish a subset of the former. "Hacker" and it's meaning pre-date computers. We man stamp our feet and throw a snit about the niceties of it, but that's reality.
Jonathan Hutchins wrote:
The term "hacker" includes the concept of "cracker", unless the latter is being used to distinguish a subset of the former. "Hacker" and it's meaning pre-date computers.
The term "cracker" is next to useless. I'd venture to guess that for most people the definition of "cracker" is a way, far-off distant fifth behind: The flat bread-food A caucasian Something that separates chemical compounds, and The alterno-college-rock band Most people simply don't associate it with computing.
On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 10:37:09PM -0600, Gerald Combs wrote:
The flat bread-food A caucasian Something that separates chemical compounds, and The alterno-college-rock band
Most people simply don't associate it with computing.
And dont forget: Hacker (N) 1. Somebody who plays golf even worse than a duffer. 2. A subtype of quack that specializes in surgery. Hack (N) 1. A (usually yellow, occasionally checkered) really small limousine sometimes accompanied by a driver with an attitude problem. -- Hal
participants (7)
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Charles, Joshua Micah (UMKC-Student) -
D. Hageman -
David Nicol -
Gerald Combs -
hald＠kc.rr.com -
Jack -
Jonathan Hutchins