On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 00:43:09 -0600 Nick Manley darkhack@gmail.com wrote:

Is anyone else really disappointed in Google recently? Do no evil my ass. Don't get me wrong, I love Google (or used to anyway, I'm on the fence now) but this Google Pack http://pack.google.com/ stuff is really pathetic. Norton and RealPlayer?! I would only put that on the system of my worst enemy. I do realize Google is getting paid for this service by some of these companies but does that really fit the "do no evil" slogan? That's not the only thing. Its a mass of things that Google has done wrong and this one finally sent me over the edge. As you can see I use gmail despite it being sub par compared to other free services and now executable are blocked in email attachments. Thanks Google. It's nice that you are trying to protect the newbies but at the very least give me the option to disable it. It is MY email! Development has been crappy to say the least. I still remember reading an article on Google Rumors http://www.googlerumors.com/about the possibility of a calendar. Still isn't here. I am not saying that I am completely expected one since it was never official and that Google is a free service that I am not paying for, thus they can provide what they want, but its been a while since Google has done anything worth while for their users. I realize this is a Linux mailing list and that most of Google's software is for Windows XP but I still want to hear your opinion on the matter. Is this the beginning of the end? Is Google finally following in the footsteps of their older brothers and becoming corrupt? Ok ok... Maybe I am looking into it too much, but it just seems lacking. Google is still good in other areas though. There support for open source and the summer of code project is a great idea! I feel that Google should set sights on doing a service and doing it well. There search is second to none. For the other stuff.... well, a little more time creating a quality product would do them and everyone else a lot better instead of trying to move on to other projects. Am I going overboard or ranting to much or do you agree with me. So many intelligent computer users (read slashdotters) have built up Google to be a god and to some it would seem sinful to bash Google in any light. Any thoughts?

I think you're ranting too much, but I'll explain why. ;)

Getting paid to help users by giving out commercial software isn't evil. Getting paid isn't evil. Being Evil would be forcing you to run the Google Pack to use their search, or gmail, or Google Maps. Personally I think giving newbie users an easy way to download the software they need to protect themselves is an excellent idea.

Maybe Norton isn't your favorite, but at least it is a step in the right direction. Many newbie users still feel that anti-virus, firewalls, spyware removal, etc. are all still optional for Windows PCs which isn't really the case anymore.

You're seriously going to fault Google for not implementing a calendar in Gmail because there was a rumor on the Internet? That's like refusing to own or ride in a car because the auto industry promised we'd all be in flying cars by now back in the 50s.

I do however think Google is in a bit of a pickle when it comes to perception. Any little misstep, as you have pointed out, and they are severely criticized when other companies wouldn't be. Take for example what you said:

"Is Google finally following in the footsteps of their older brothers and becoming corrupt? Ok ok... Maybe I am looking into it too much, but it just seems lacking."

Lacking? This just baffles me. Name a company that has created more ground breaking services than Google on the Internet in the short time they have existed. Google Search, Gmail, Google Maps, AdWords, AdSense, etc, etc, etc. These were *all* serious firsts in their areas. Hell AdWords has all by itself has revolutionized online advertising.

Most companies don't revolutionize anything in their entire lifetimes, they simple do something slightly better than the competition or most often than not simply have better marketers. Others revolutionize once. Google does it about yearly.

And with all the talent they are buying up, I don't see this trending down. I think the biggest problem with the "Don't be Evil" mantra is that everyone's definition of "evil" is a little different.

We can all agree that super gluing your friend to the ceiling is evil. But is it still evil if yesterday he shaved your head in your sleep and spray painted your dog purple? We can probably all agree that murder is evil, but what if it is the guy who killed your whole family? Killing them isn't quite as "evil" is it? Not necessarily "good", but not necessarily "evil" either.

Now that Google is so big, being "good" is much harder. They are up on a much bigger stage and pedestal now. Am I worried that in the future they might become corrupt? Sure. But I'm less worried about it with them, than any other company I can think of.

--------------------------------- Frank Wiles frank@wiles.org http://www.wiles.org ---------------------------------

On 1/7/06, Nick Manley darkhack@gmail.com wrote:

Norton and RealPlayer?!

I think I would have personally picked AVG over Norton, especially putting the free version on there. RealPlayer? Hmm... well, they provide the streaming for MLB.com, so I guess I'm stuck with them. As a company though, Real doesn't seem as bad as they used to be. They contribute back to the F/OSS world with Helix, and even release a free beer RealPlayer. And by RealPlayer, I'm talking like RealPlayer10, not RealOne. It's like Windows Media Player Classic compared to Windows Media Player 10.

and now executable are blocked in email attachments. Thanks Google. It's nice that you are trying to protect the newbies but at the very least give me the option to disable it.

I think blocking executables is a good thing. It helps slow down any email-propigated worms from crashing my server. :)

Of course, you can simply rename the file from somefile.exe to somefile.txt or somefile.exe.txt and send it just fine. Is it a hassle, yes, but I rarely send executables over email.

Development has been crappy to say the least.

How much do you pay for Google mail again? :)

Google Rumors about the possibility of a calendar. Still isn't here. I am not saying that I am completely expected one since it was never official and that Google is a free service that I am not paying for, thus they can provide what they want, but its been a while since Google has done anything worth while for their users.

I'm excited about the possibility of a Google Calendar. I have a couple of places where I could make use of it. Until then, I'm not worried about it.

Google's Summer of Code was brilliant. You pay 450 guys a little bit of money (a drop in the bucket in terms of Google) and not only do you get great PR and contribute back to open source projects, but you also have a leg up on hiring 450 guys when they graduate. It's networking! And brilliant. Something else that hasn't received as much press, but just as brilliant is Google's Pizza Program, where they recruit one person from each university to serve as basically Google's ambasador, and provide free pizza and Google schwag to fellow students. http://www.google.com/jobs/studentsg.html

As Frank mentioned, Google has introduced several tech innovations. I'd like to add one more buzzword to the fire: AJAX. I mean, who heard of AJAX before Gmail? I know I didn't. The whole concept of a web application acting more like a client application than a website is a big deal. And now, everyone wants AJAX software, from database management, to you-name-it. I don't know if Google invented it, but they sure put it on the map.

Of course, evil is in the eye of the beholder. Or something like that.

Jeremy

Is anyone else really disappointed in Google recently? Do no evil my ass. Don't get me wrong, I love Google (or used to anyway, I'm on the fence now) but this Google Pack http://pack.google.com/ stuff is really pathetic. Norton and RealPlayer?! I would only put that on the system of my worst enemy. I do realize Google is getting paid for this service by some of these companies but does that really fit the "do no evil" slogan? That's not the only thing. Its a mass of things that Google has done wrong and this one finally sent me over the edge.

I would have preferred they not put any non-free software in their Google Pack but it's not really evil to have done otherwise. Probably when good enough free alternatives appear they'll put them instead. Especially if we give some feedback that that is what we want. They probably just picked what they thought of as the best of breed which is always an arguable measurement.

As you can see I use gmail despite it being sub par compared to other free services and now executable are blocked in email attachments. Thanks Google. It's nice that you are trying to protect the newbies but at the very least give me the option to disable it. It is MY email! Development has been crappy to say the least.

What are these better free email services? Hotmail sucks, Yahoo sucks.. so what is it you'd rather use and why don't you just use it if it's better?

I still remember reading an article on Google Rumors http://www.googlerumors.com/ about the possibility of a calendar. Still isn't here. I am not saying that I am completely expected one since it was never official and that Google is a free service that I am not paying for, thus they can provide what they want, but its been a while since Google has done anything worth while for their users. I realize this is a Linux mailing list and that most of Google's software is for Windows XP but I still want to hear your opinion on the matter. Is this the beginning of the end? Is Google finally following in the footsteps of their older brothers and becoming corrupt? Ok ok... Maybe I am looking into it too much, but it just seems lacking. Google is still good in other areas though. There support for open source and the summer of code project is a great idea! I feel that Google should set sights on doing a service and doing it well. There search is second to none. For the other stuff.... well, a little more time creating a quality product would do them and everyone else a lot better instead of trying to move on to other projects. Am I going overboard or ranting to much or do you agree with me. So many intelligent computer users (read slashdotters) have built up Google to be a god and to some it would seem sinful to bash Google in any light. Any thoughts?

Any free services not offered by Google is hardly something they are required to do. Software takes time to write and services take resources to host. I'd rather they not offer a service until they think they can really make it better. If you think you can offer the service they don't or think you can do it better than please do so. You could make a lot of money and we'd all get to experience these great new services. Try running a business while trying not to be evil in anyones eyes. It's hard to do.