I find the signal to noise ratio with the topics my primary reason for ignoring most of what comes across the list. I originally came out to the meetings and joined the list for intelligent discussion of tech related topics at any level. The mailing list however rarely presents that sort of thing anymore. Now that I am working a late shift, I can't make it to the meetings and even though the topics vary there, generally some tech related stuff is brought up.
While the list isn't moderated, there is also a disregard it seems for promoting tech topics over bickering about economics, social issues, religion, politics and US law. The closest I have seen on the list to a tech topics lately was revolving ink cartridge refills for printers. Where is Linux? If half the enthusiasm thats being asserted for these topics was put towards Linux, great things might just happen.
I certainly hope at some point that something more useful than who feels what about religion and politics actually comes from this list. What we have instead is folks that are set in their ways for one side or the other locked in perpetual debate that won't change the minds or opinions of the others.
Why not propose a tech question or topic to discuss in a new thread?
-John Frakes
----Original Message----- From: "Leo Mauler" webgiant@yahoo.com To: kclug@kclug.org Sent: 8/14/2008 3:23 AM Subject: Re: what ever happened to linux?(Rep. Cleaver/immigration rants, etc.)
--- On Tue, 8/12/08, marlowe@antagonism.org marlowe@antagonism.org wrote:
I highly recommend KCLUG set up a BS list, similar to LEAP, where non-Open Source discussions can take place. I find this helps to minimize the signal to noise ratio for those who wish to just concentrate on OSS.
In my experience creating a new mailing list for people to which to take their unrelated discussions, results in an empty BS list and the same level of OT discussions on the original list.
Sometimes people just don't want to bother going somewhere else, and sometimes those on the free E-mail providers have used up all their E-mail filters already and don't have one free to use for yet another mailing list. Plus there's the added disincentive of the new BS list containing entirely inflammatory messages: no one wants to subscribe to a daily dose of inflammatory messages. Dodging the cow patties in the existing mailing list is somewhat preferable.
Plus the instant you mention such a list, someone will start a "censorship!" flamewar, and none of us wants that.
_______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 3:56 AM, John unixengineer@earthlink.net wrote:
I certainly hope at some point that something more useful than who feels what about religion and politics actually comes from this list. What we have instead is folks that are set in their ways for one side or the other locked in perpetual debate that won't change the minds or opinions of the others.
Why not propose a tech question or topic to discuss in a new thread?
-John Frakes
If a person cannot clearly explain their position on any number of general social issues, we can safely infer that they cannot do the same on tech related topics as well. Ever tried to explain the concept of giving away the software, but selling support to a regular person in a business mindset? You better know your economics and business strategy or they'll think you are a loon for giving up the chance to get income from individual sales of the software. Sometimes a discussion might not be directly topical for the list, but it relates to the larger issue in many ways that take some thought in finding.
Jon.
On Thursday 14 August 2008, Jon Pruente wrote:
giving away the software
Free software has nothing to do with giving it away. From the start, the FSF has encouraged free software developers to charge for the software they write.
On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Luke -Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
On Thursday 14 August 2008, Jon Pruente wrote:
giving away the software
Free software has nothing to do with giving it away. From the start, the FSF has encouraged free software developers to charge for the software they write.
I agree, but when asked why Canonical gives away Ubuntu (the current new user favorite), one needs to be prepared to explain it. The same goes for most of the other big name distros that have both free to use OSs and paid support..
Jon.
On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 7:35 AM, Jon Pruente jdpruente@gmail.com wrote:
Ever tried to explain the concept of giving away the software, but selling support to a regular person in a business mindset? You better know your economics and business strategy or they'll think you are a loon for giving up the chance to get income from individual sales of the software. Sometimes a discussion might not be directly topical for the list, but it relates to the larger issue in many ways that take some thought in finding.
+1
Every list I subscribe to does this from time to time; under normal circumstances, tech gets discussed without such noise interfering. You'll recognize the flamewar header in your mailbox; just ignore those messages and read the others, I suppose...
John wrote:
I find the signal to noise ratio with the topics my primary reason for ignoring most of what comes across the list. I originally came out to the meetings and joined the list for intelligent discussion of tech related topics at any level. The mailing list however rarely presents that sort of thing anymore. Now that I am working a late shift, I can't make it to the meetings and even though the topics vary there, generally some tech related stuff is brought up.
While the list isn't moderated, there is also a disregard it seems for promoting tech topics over bickering about economics, social issues, religion, politics and US law. The closest I have seen on the list to a tech topics lately was revolving ink cartridge refills for printers. Where is Linux? If half the enthusiasm thats being asserted for these topics was put towards Linux, great things might just happen.
I certainly hope at some point that something more useful than who feels what about religion and politics actually comes from this list. What we have instead is folks that are set in their ways for one side or the other locked in perpetual debate that won't change the minds or opinions of the others.
Why not propose a tech question or topic to discuss in a new thread?
-John Frakes
----Original Message----- From: "Leo Mauler" webgiant@yahoo.com To: kclug@kclug.org Sent: 8/14/2008 3:23 AM Subject: Re: what ever happened to linux?(Rep. Cleaver/immigration rants, etc.)
--- On Tue, 8/12/08, marlowe@antagonism.org marlowe@antagonism.org wrote:
I highly recommend KCLUG set up a BS list, similar to LEAP, where non-Open Source discussions can take place. I find this helps to minimize the signal to noise ratio for those who wish to just concentrate on OSS.
In my experience creating a new mailing list for people to which to take their unrelated discussions, results in an empty BS list and the same level of OT discussions on the original list.
Sometimes people just don't want to bother going somewhere else, and sometimes those on the free E-mail providers have used up all their E-mail filters already and don't have one free to use for yet another mailing list. Plus there's the added disincentive of the new BS list containing entirely inflammatory messages: no one wants to subscribe to a daily dose of inflammatory messages. Dodging the cow patties in the existing mailing list is somewhat preferable.
Plus the instant you mention such a list, someone will start a "censorship!" flamewar, and none of us wants that.
Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
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Luke -Jr