Gentlemen,
I need your help justifying purchase of a new computing device. Do any of you have experience with using the Asus EEE PC (mostly likely 2G) in a mostly unconnected role as an educational tool? I am interested in introducing my brother (high schooler) to programming type activities (esp. python). However, since the machine is being marketed as a "surf machine" I am wondering how well it would fit that role.
Thanks for any feedback
On Apr 25, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
Gentlemen,
I need your help justifying purchase of a new computing device. Do any of you have experience with using the Asus EEE PC (mostly likely 2G) in a mostly unconnected role as an educational tool? I am interested in introducing my brother (high schooler) to programming type activities (esp. python). However, since the machine is being marketed as a "surf machine" I am wondering how well it would fit that role.
Thanks for any feedback
Hi Arthur,
I know a person that has built a linux system with it and he said this:
"HELP I'M TRAPPED IN A CODING FACTORY!"
So hope this helps!
William
On Friday 25 April 2008, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
I need your help justifying purchase of a new computing device. Do any of you have experience with using the Asus EEE PC (mostly likely 2G) in a mostly unconnected role as an educational tool? I am interested in introducing my brother (high schooler) to programming type activities (esp. python). However, since the machine is being marketed as a "surf machine" I am wondering how well it would fit that role.
To fully use the Eee PC, you must run a proprietary OS. I would look for something else suitable.
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Luke -Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
To fully use the Eee PC, you must run a proprietary OS. I would look for something else suitable.
I was unaware of this, could you expound?
On Friday 25 April 2008, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Luke -Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
To fully use the Eee PC, you must run a proprietary OS. I would look for something else suitable.
I was unaware of this, could you expound?
The EeePC requires (either Windows or) a derivative of the Linux kernel to run. This derivative kernel has been modified to support some oddities of the Eee PC (ACPI and WiFi in particular), and the source for this modified kernel is not available. Their website does have a 1.6 GB ZIP file claiming to be "source", but it is just a bunch of binary .debs and kernel *headers*.
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Luke -Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
the source for this modified kernel is not available. Their website does have a 1.6 GB ZIP file claiming to be "source", but it is just a bunch of binary .debs and kernel *headers*.
At long last, the appearance of a genuine GPL violation! Someone must buy one of these things, formally request the source code, and see if they provide it.
Oh never mind -- someone did this three quarters ago, and ASUS crumbled like wet toast: http://www.google.com/search?q=ASUS+gpl+violation
--- Luke -Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
On Friday 25 April 2008, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
I need your help justifying purchase of a new computing device. Do any of you have experience with using the Asus EEE PC (mostly likely 2G) in a mostly unconnected role as an educational tool? I am interested in introducing my brother (high schooler) to programming type activities (esp. python). However, since the machine is being marketed as a "surf machine" I am wondering how well it would fit that role.
To fully use the Eee PC, you must run a proprietary OS. I would look for something else suitable.
I'm a little confused by this response, as I was under the impression that Linux was the standard OS on the "EEE" and that Windows was an add-on option which cost extra.
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I have had one suggestion so far that the screen size makes this _not_ a good machine (even) for casual coding.
My bro is far from a hard core coder.... infact the idea is to get him interested, or at least allow him the chance.
I'd recommend a MacBook. Wonderful hardware, good development environment, very easy to use. And, of course, it's Unix. If you want to run Linux, you can install it on it or use Parallels.
Jeffrey.
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Arthur Pemberton pemboa@gmail.com wrote:
I have had one suggestion so far that the screen size makes this _not_ a good machine (even) for casual coding.
My bro is far from a hard core coder.... infact the idea is to get him interested, or at least allow him the chance.
I'd recommend NOT using a MacBook. I've been using a MacBook for over a year now, and the hardware quirks that show up in Linux are extremely annoying (i.e., random video buffer corruption). In fact, I am planning on "upgrading" to the new EEE which is due out soon, with 20GB of SSD storage and a slightly larger screen. The EEE does have an external VGA port, which I intend to connect to the 21 inch monitor on my desk for stationary use. I've found that 90% of my heavy lifting (cpu-wise) is now done on remote machines anyway, so the light and compact EEE is looking like a very nice option for me.
Regarding the proprietary OS version running on the EEE, several people have gotten Ubuntu to run on it. Some of the features have been broken at various points, such as power control and wifi, but ASUS has been working to release as much code as they can. Keep in mind that ASUS is bound by contracts with the component manufacturers. Like with the Openmoko situation, there are certain things that the hardware vendors cannot open source by law (stupid U.S. laws). The nice thing is that ASUS has made an effort to provide as much as they can. The power control stuff has been released, and I hear there are hacks to get the rest of the hardware fully functional without too much effort.
~Bradley
Jeffrey Watts wrote:
I'd recommend a MacBook. Wonderful hardware, good development environment, very easy to use. And, of course, it's Unix. If you want to run Linux, you can install it on it or use Parallels.
Jeffrey.
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Arthur Pemberton pemboa@gmail.com wrote:
I have had one suggestion so far that the screen size makes this _not_ a good machine (even) for casual coding.
My bro is far from a hard core coder.... infact the idea is to get him interested, or at least allow him the chance.
On Friday 25 April 2008, Bradley Hook wrote:
Keep in mind that ASUS is bound by contracts with the component manufacturers.
Keep in mind that ASUS is bound by contracts with the Linux, BusyBox, and other such developers to release the source WITH THE PRODUCT*. Why should we care about their other contracts? If the two contracts are incompatible, their software is illegal to distribute and they need to resolve the problems BEFORE they can distribute it.
Like with the Openmoko situation, there are certain things that the hardware vendors cannot open source by law (stupid U.S. laws).
AFAIK, this only applies to WiFi, and only to a certain extent. While releasing the madwifi code might be legally risky** due to vagueness, I don't think it is clear-cut illegal like GPL violation is.
The nice thing is that ASUS has made an effort to provide as much as they can. The power control stuff has been released, and I hear there are hacks to get the rest of the hardware fully functional without too much effort.
In most cases, this argument of "they released the source now" is moot, since all rights granted under the GPL are void once the terms are violated-- that is, you cannot necessarily just start complying later and automatically regain the right to distribute it. In this particular case, since Asus has opted to use the source-offer form of the GPL, they're probably clear as long as the code they released is in fact the code used (since the GPL does not specify a time deadline for delivering requested code).
* While an offer is an acceptable substitute for the source itself, the source offered must still be that equivlent to the binaries. It cannot be a "cleaned up" source or a later version. ** IIRC, the laws in question state that the product cannot be used to transmit on non-licensed frequencies. I would argue that third-party modifications to the driver source should be considered the same as if I were to modify this in the hardware. The FCC approval would be void, but at no fault of the original company.
On Friday 25 April 2008 17:24:54 Luke -Jr wrote:
Keep in mind that ASUS is bound by contracts with the Linux...
Once again, you show a stunning lack of basic legal understanding.
No-one has contracts with Linux. Linux is not a legal entity with whom/which you can make a contract.
I think the confusion between "contracts" and "licenses", specifically the GPL, is the problem here. Linux's success and popularity wasn't possible without the GPL, which in turn was created by GNU which is a legal entity.
Personally I have no idea what Luke-Jr is talking about either, I just suspect that he's confusing licenses with contracts.
--- Jonathan Hutchins hutchins@tarcanfel.org wrote:
On Friday 25 April 2008 17:24:54 Luke -Jr wrote:
Keep in mind that ASUS is bound by contracts with
the Linux...
Once again, you show a stunning lack of basic legal understanding.
No-one has contracts with Linux. Linux is not a legal entity with whom/which you can make a contract.
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On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 4:59 PM, Bradley Hook bhook@kssb.net wrote:
I'd recommend NOT using a MacBook. I've been using a MacBook for over a year now, and the hardware quirks that show up in Linux are extremely annoying (i.e., random video buffer corruption).
Sounds like FUD to me. I've been using a MacBook Pro for 9 months and it's great! Keeping your Linux installation under a VM allows you to do image cloning, makes backup a cinch, and you can run images of any distribution you want. Keeping the underlying OS Mac OS X makes the computer more useful overall from a gaming / proprietary software perspective as well. And you can run Windows either natively or under yet another VM.
I got a MacBook (not Pro) in August 2006, and I've been extremely pleased with it. VMWare has been great for setting up several VMs (I use Parallels, too).
Down sides: It's a good idea to run VMs on a separate drive to minimize thrashing -- extremely easy to add an external firewire drive on any recent Mac, and larger drive is much cheaper. Also good to have a drive case with a fan. Some innovative designs are proud of leaving the fan off, but I'm not impressed.
Also, the later models, with Core 2 Duo processors, allow a total of 3 Gig RAM. My 2 Gig gets a little crowded, especially when I run X servers on the guest systems. Running guests without X servers reduces RAM usage considerably. I also have to quit some of the other apps I run. I understand Leopard has better memory management, so it might be less crowded than Tiger.
I got a laptop since I only have budget for one system and I need something I can carry around. This one has been wonderful, and has met or exceeded all expectations.
--Don Ellis
On Apr 25, 2008, at 5:36 PM, Christofer C. Bell wrote:
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 4:59 PM, Bradley Hook bhook@kssb.net wrote:
I'd recommend NOT using a MacBook. I've been using a MacBook for over a year now, and the hardware quirks that show up in Linux are extremely annoying (i.e., random video buffer corruption).
Sounds like FUD to me. I've been using a MacBook Pro for 9 months and it's great! Keeping your Linux installation under a VM allows you to do image cloning, makes backup a cinch, and you can run images of any distribution you want. Keeping the underlying OS Mac OS X makes the computer more useful overall from a gaming / proprietary software perspective as well. And you can run Windows either natively or under yet another VM.
-- Chris _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 11:26 PM, Don Ellis don.ellis@alumni.rice.edu wrote:
Also, the later models, with Core 2 Duo processors, allow a total of 3 Gig RAM. My 2 Gig gets a little crowded, especially when I run X servers on the guest systems.
The MacBook Pro from revision 3.1 on (June 2007) and MacBooks from the same period support up to 4GB of RAM. Previous to that, yes, the limit was 2GB. Great choice on the MacBook!
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 11:35 PM, Christofer C. Bell christofer.c.bell@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 11:26 PM, Don Ellis don.ellis@alumni.rice.edu wrote:
Also, the later models, with Core 2 Duo processors, allow a total of 3 Gig RAM. My 2 Gig gets a little crowded, especially when I run X servers on the guest systems.
The MacBook Pro from revision 3.1 on (June 2007) and MacBooks from the same period support up to 4GB of RAM. Previous to that, yes, the limit was 2GB. Great choice on the MacBook!
Correction, the limit was 3GB. I need to read my emails more thoroughly before hitting send.
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Arthur Pemberton -
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