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Arthur Pemberton wrote: | On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 12:27 AM, Oren Beck orenbeck@gmail.com wrote: |> http://www.liliputing.com/2008/04/over-past-six-months-or-so-asus-everex_24.... | | Not for long. I feel confident that Microsoft will do (quite | literally) whatever it takes to stop this.

How...exactly? Even if they give away their OS (which sort of defeats the whole purpose), linux is far better suited to these minimal devices, and comes with full source.

I work in the electronics and embedded space, and linux has been the dominate OS for new designs for several years now. The configurability, full source, price, development tools, etc. have made this choice easy for a lot of reasons. Yeah, MS has their CE (Crippled Edition) that runs on low-end gadgets, but you can still boot *REAL* linux off a couple meg (even a floppy, if you still have one!), get mainstream support for ARMs, H8's, etc., and even port to your own custom CPU without too much hassle if you're so inclined.

The open-source aspect of linux is great for the embedded space, as there are /always/ weird issues that crop up with new products that can be next to impossible to fix w/o visibility into the OS source, which is typically a VERY expensive option to closed-source OS alternatives (not just MS, but things like VXWorks, QNX, and Nucleus). Even /with/ the source, you typically are not licensed to fix any bugs/issues that come up, and are reliant on the (hopefully responsive) vendor to provide a new version with whatever fixes you need.

Also, while linux isn't itself a real-time operating system, since it's open-source, you can coerce it into one with your choice of several kernel patches, run it as a task in a true RTOS, or otherwise mold it to fit your needs.

MS may use their current desktop muscle to forge a position in the PDA and hand-held market, but the 'invisible' stuff on the factory floor, inside your smart-switch, NAS box, firewall/AP, combat 'bot, etc. is converging on linux, with the UI driven stuff not far behind.

- -- Charles Steinkuehler charles@steinkuehler.net

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David Nicol wrote: | On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Charles Steinkuehler |> the 'invisible' stuff on the factory floor, |> inside your smart-switch, NAS box, firewall/AP, combat 'bot, etc. is |> converging on linux, with the UI driven stuff not far behind. | | is picoBSD in there fighting, or quickly becoming an academic also-ran?

I haven't seen any trade noise about picoBSD, but *LOTS* of stuff about linux. A quick search at embedded.com for picoBSD and linux yields no results for picoBSD, but 1447 for linux, so I'd say academic also-ran for picoBSD. A search for plain BSD, however, yields 39 hits, but OS-9 gets 14, and even uCOS and RTEMS got 9 each. A bunch of the BSD hits were also of the form: "<embedded-OS> get BSD Sockets interface". :)

Note that these numbers are not totally (or perhaps even remotely) accurate...folks using bsd are probably doing so because they don't want to deal with the licensing issues of linux (ie: kind of why Microsoft pilfered the BSD network stack, *NOT* the linux one...plus at the time the BSD stack still kicked linux's butt in networking :), so there's likely a fair amount of embedded BSD work going on that never sees the light of day.

BTW: For those not familiar with it, RTEMS started life as the cruise-missile real-time OS paid for by your government with your tax money (I'm assuming you're a US citizen). As appropriate for a public expenditure, this software is now available for use by the unwashed public masses...just don't tell the terrorists. :)

First: RTEMS = Real-Time Executive for Missile Systems

...then: RTEMS = Real-Time Executive for Military Systems

...today: RTEMS = Real-Time Executive for Multiprocessor Systems

Kind of like how NMR (Nuclear Magnetic Resonance) morphed into MRI (Magnetic Resonance Imaging)...

- -- Charles Steinkuehler charles@steinkuehler.net

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:31 PM, Charles Steinkuehler charles@steinkuehler.net wrote:

Note that these numbers are not totally (or perhaps even remotely) accurate...folks using bsd are probably doing so because they don't want to deal with the licensing issues of linux (ie: kind of why Microsoft pilfered the BSD network stack, *NOT* the linux one...plus at the time the BSD stack still kicked linux's butt in networking :), so there's likely a fair amount of embedded BSD work going on that never sees the light of day.

A lot of BSD work happens on the BSD mailing lists. NetBSD has quite a few embedded platforms in their support lists. Speaking of embedded and portable systems, my buddy has started running JLime Linux on an HP palmtop to do WarDriving as a modernized upgrade from WinCE. Now is as good a time as any to link to our UNIX/tech/security/programming blog: http://www.h-i-r.net/2008/04/jlime-linux-wifi-scanning-new-userland.html If anyone was around "the scene" much back in the day you may have heard of HiR and our series of e-zines in the late-90s... I ll try not to date myself much more toady, what with setting up a dial-up router and writing for an e-zine a decade ago and all. Maybe I shouldn't mention the Amigas in the basement. ;)

Jon.