Jason Clinton wrote:

The text we used is called _Power_and_Choice_ by W. Phillips Shively and can be had for under $20 off the internet.

Thank you. I'll check it out and perhaps add it to my wish list.

"Any act of politics may be viewed from either of two perspectives, either as a cooperative search for an answer to common problems or as an act by which some members of a group impose their will on other members of the group. It is important to remember that generally both viewpoints are valid."

A good point, and the point I was trying to make. I think of OSS as the common search without the coercion.

Jason Clinton wrote:

Based on all the benefits that organized forms of government have brought to the human race over the past 30,000 years, I would have to conclude that coercion or at least the threat of coercion has had a net-positive effect.

But you just said...

Several centuries ago, most people were almost unaware of the state in which they lived; they noticed it only if the king's soldiers marched through their fields. At that time, many large geographic areas could hardly be said to have been organized as states at all.

So you can hardly credit the nation state for 30,000 years of progress, when it only arrived on the scene in the last 300.

As technology provided for longer healthier lives and provide an impetus to create large cities with significant population densities... government became more significant. But government does not imply that all such city states were centralized and coercive. Colonial America is a nice example. Here's a book on my reading wish list which you might want to take a look at:

Conceived in Liberty http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0945466269/

It is a history of colonial American from the 1600-1800's which shows that our societies political heritage has been quite the opposite of the coercive centralized political state.

Quite frankly, your comments make me conclude you're either an extremist libertarian or an anarchist -- neither of which are healthy political persuasions.

People called Jefferson an anarchist. I don't think I'm either. You have to put it all in context. There are ideals and practicalities. I think government should be as decentralized as is feasible. I just happen to think we're a long way from what's feasible.

-- Garrett Goebel IS Development Specialist

ScriptPro Direct: 913.403.5261 5828 Reeds Road Main: 913.384.1008 Mission, KS 66202 Fax: 913.384.2180 www.scriptpro.com garrett at scriptpro dot com