On Tuesday 12 August 2008, you wrote:
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:58, Luke -Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
On Tuesday 12 August 2008, you wrote:
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:37, Luke -Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
On Tuesday 12 August 2008, you wrote: Last time I checked, any such condition on a warranty is illegal.
Where did you check last time. Specifically?
Last night when I began having issues using the refill.
No. I meant where did you read that a warranty can not be voided for misuse and abuse? That would be some really obnoxious government regulation.
Refilling ink isn't misuse nor abuse.
"Bonkers"? that language specifically detracts from the point. The printer is malfunctioning because you damaged it by doing something it wasn't designed for. What did you expect?
It wasn't designed to print? A refilled cartridge should no more damage a printer than a non-root userland app with a security hole should damage the running kernel.
The something you did, which it was not designed for (and I'm sure you know this) was use a refilled cartridge.
Oh, HP doesn't sell refilled cartridges? The name brand ones at the store are always manufactured new? I think not...
You should read this.
http://h71036.www7.hp.com/hho/cache/546038-0-0-225-121.html
I especially think you should pay attention to the part where it says "Refilled inkjet cartridges had a better than 25% (1 in 4) chance of being dead on arrival or failing prematurely." Sounds like you might have gotten hit by that 1 out of the 4. Maybe instead of blaming the company that makes the printer that was working fine with a proper ink cartridge, you should blame the company that refilled (or more probably improperly refilled) the ink cartridge that you purchased at a discount to save a few dollars. How much is your time worth and how many hours have you spent trying to get the discount ink cartridge working. Did you really save money?
Phil
-----Original Message----- From: kclug-bounces@kclug.org [mailto:kclug-bounces@kclug.org] On Behalf Of Luke -Jr Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:21 PM To: kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: HP Rant 2
On Tuesday 12 August 2008, you wrote:
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:58, Luke -Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
On Tuesday 12 August 2008, you wrote:
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:37, Luke -Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
On Tuesday 12 August 2008, you wrote: Last time I checked, any such condition on a warranty is
illegal.
Where did you check last time. Specifically?
Last night when I began having issues using the refill.
No. I meant where did you read that a warranty can not be voided
for
misuse and abuse? That would be some really obnoxious government regulation.
Refilling ink isn't misuse nor abuse.
"Bonkers"? that language specifically detracts from the point.
The
printer is malfunctioning because you damaged it by doing
something it
wasn't designed for. What did you expect?
It wasn't designed to print? A refilled cartridge should no more
damage a
printer than a non-root userland app with a security hole should
damage
the running kernel.
The something you did, which it was not designed for (and I'm sure
you
know this) was use a refilled cartridge.
Oh, HP doesn't sell refilled cartridges? The name brand ones at the store are always manufactured new? I think not... _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
On Tuesday 12 August 2008, you wrote:
You should read this. http://h71036.www7.hp.com/hho/cache/546038-0-0-225-121.html I especially think you should pay attention to the part where it says "Refilled inkjet cartridges had a better than 25% (1 in 4) chance of being dead on arrival or failing prematurely." Sounds like you might have gotten hit by that 1 out of the 4.
Sounds like FUD.
Maybe instead of blaming the company that makes the printer that was working fine with a proper ink cartridge, you should blame the company that refilled (or more probably improperly refilled) the ink cartridge that you purchased at a discount to save a few dollars.
No self-contained cartridge should be able to break a scanner. Furthermore, I didn't buy a "refilled cartridge". I bought a refill kit. Which was a trivial process. And with exception of the alignment printouts (that printed black perfectly fine), the cartridge and ink is still all self-contained.
How much is your time worth and how many hours have you spent trying to get the discount ink cartridge working. Did you really save money?
I can't realistically blame anyone but HP for this nonsense.
So don't take HP's word for it. Here is Xerox's word:
http://www.xerox.com/go/xrx/template/015.jsp?view=MainSearchFAQ&faqID=DH C+Ink+Cartridge+Refill+Kit&Xcntry=USA&Xlang=en_US
or the Lexmark word:
http://www.lexmark.com/vgn/images/portal/1_Lexmark_BLI_competitive_study _2007.pdf
Bottom line is this. If you are not willing to pay for quality, you will not get quality. None of the major printer companies will support using refilled ink cartridges no matter how they are refilled because they no longer have control over the quality of the cartridge and cannot guarantee that it will not damage your printer.
Phil
-----Original Message----- From: Luke -Jr [mailto:luke@dashjr.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 2:38 PM To: Phil Thayer Cc: kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: HP Rant 2
On Tuesday 12 August 2008, you wrote:
You should read this. http://h71036.www7.hp.com/hho/cache/546038-0-0-225-121.html I especially think you should pay attention to the part where it
says
"Refilled inkjet cartridges had a better than 25% (1 in 4) chance of being dead on arrival or failing prematurely." Sounds like you
might
have gotten hit by that 1 out of the 4.
Sounds like FUD.
Maybe instead of blaming the company that makes the printer that was
working
fine with a proper ink cartridge, you should blame the company that
refilled
(or more probably improperly refilled) the ink cartridge that you
purchased
at a discount to save a few dollars.
No self-contained cartridge should be able to break a scanner. Furthermore, I didn't buy a "refilled cartridge". I bought a refill kit. Which was a trivial process. And with exception of the alignment printouts (that printed black perfectly fine), the cartridge and ink is still all self-contained.
How much is your time worth and how many hours have you spent trying
to get
the discount ink cartridge working. Did you really save money?
I can't realistically blame anyone but HP for this nonsense.
On Tuesday 12 August 2008, Phil Thayer wrote:
So don't take HP's word for it. Here is Xerox's word: or the Lexmark word:
Gee, what a coincidence these are all people with a vested interest in making you overpay for ink.
Bottom line is this. If you are not willing to pay for quality, you will not get quality. None of the major printer companies will support using refilled ink cartridges no matter how they are refilled because they no longer have control over the quality of the cartridge and cannot guarantee that it will not damage your printer.
Well done, you've justified DRM.
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 7:50 PM, Luke -Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
On Tuesday 12 August 2008, Phil Thayer wrote:
Bottom line is this. If you are not willing to pay for quality, you will not get quality. None of the major printer companies will support using refilled ink cartridges no matter how they are refilled because they no longer have control over the quality of the cartridge and cannot guarantee that it will not damage your printer.
Well done, you've justified DRM.
No he hasn't. He's justified businesses not supporting third party products that they didn't produce, sell you, recommend, or have any control over.
On Wednesday 13 August 2008, Christofer C. Bell wrote:
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 7:50 PM, Luke -Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
On Tuesday 12 August 2008, Phil Thayer wrote:
Bottom line is this. If you are not willing to pay for quality, you will not get quality. None of the major printer companies will support using refilled ink cartridges no matter how they are refilled because they no longer have control over the quality of the cartridge and cannot guarantee that it will not damage your printer.
Well done, you've justified DRM.
No he hasn't. He's justified businesses not supporting third party products that they didn't produce, sell you, recommend, or have any control over.
No, he's "justified" business not supporting THEIR OWN products just because you use a third-party product with them. In the case of refills, there really isn't even a third-party involved.
The obvious equivalent is voiding your "warranty" on Windows the moment you install non-Microsoft software.
On Wednesday 13 August 2008, Luke -Jr wrote:
On Wednesday 13 August 2008, Christofer C. Bell wrote:
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 7:50 PM, Luke -Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
On Tuesday 12 August 2008, Phil Thayer wrote:
Bottom line is this. If you are not willing to pay for quality, you will not get quality. None of the major printer companies will support using refilled ink cartridges no matter how they are refilled because they no longer have control over the quality of the cartridge and cannot guarantee that it will not damage your printer.
Well done, you've justified DRM.
No he hasn't. He's justified businesses not supporting third party products that they didn't produce, sell you, recommend, or have any control over.
No, he's "justified" business not supporting THEIR OWN products just because you use a third-party product with them. In the case of refills, there really isn't even a third-party involved.
The obvious equivalent is voiding your "warranty" on Windows the moment you install non-Microsoft software.
...and in the case of HP printers... the equivalent is Windows refusing to execute any non-Microsoft software.
I never said that using refilled ink cartridges will void a warrantee. However, if you call HP for support and then tell them that you are using a refilled ink cartridge, they will tell you to replace it with an HP Approved ink cartridge (which could be made by another vendor such as Xerox or Lexmark) and then if the problem persists follow up with the support case.
This would be the same as Microsoft saying update your Windows with the most recent updates or service pack and see if the problem continues. Or Red Hat support saying to update your Linux to a certain level and see if the problem persists.
Refilled ink cartridges will not void a warrantee on an HP printer unless it is shown that the cartridge caused damage to the printer. Which is highly likely due to the fact that HP (or an approved HP vendor like Xerox or Lexmark) has no control over the quality control of the ink cartridge manufacturing process.
Without maintaining some way to have that control over quality the product might as well be a Windows. :)
-----Original Message----- From: kclug-bounces@kclug.org [mailto:kclug-bounces@kclug.org] On Behalf Of Luke -Jr Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 11:44 AM To: kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: HP Rant 2
On Wednesday 13 August 2008, Luke -Jr wrote:
On Wednesday 13 August 2008, Christofer C. Bell wrote:
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 7:50 PM, Luke -Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
On Tuesday 12 August 2008, Phil Thayer wrote:
Bottom line is this. If you are not willing to pay for quality,
you
will not get quality. None of the major printer companies will support using refilled ink cartridges no matter how they are
refilled
because they no longer have control over the quality of the
cartridge
and cannot guarantee that it will not damage your printer.
Well done, you've justified DRM.
No he hasn't. He's justified businesses not supporting third
party
products that they didn't produce, sell you, recommend, or have
any
control over.
No, he's "justified" business not supporting THEIR OWN products just because you use a third-party product with them. In the case of
refills,
there really isn't even a third-party involved.
The obvious equivalent is voiding your "warranty" on Windows the
moment you
install non-Microsoft software.
...and in the case of HP printers... the equivalent is Windows
refusing
to execute any non-Microsoft software. _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
-
Christofer C. Bell -
Luke -Jr -
Phil Thayer