Kelsay, Brian - Kansas City, MO wrote:
Garrett Goebel wrote:
A SBC AT&T merger date has not yet been set, but 12 months from the day... SBC will have to offer DSL service unbundled from local voice service. ...
This might make DSL affordable for us cell only users. Right now, I might as well get Cable Internet and basic cable, since that is less than DSL and local phone service. Not to mention the slower speeds of DSL.
It might lead to cable companies unbundling services too...
Whenever it becomes affordable, I will switch to VOIP for local and long distance voice service through someone like SunRocket http://www.sunrocket.com for $200/year.
--- Garrett Goebel garrett@scriptpro.com wrote:
Whenever it becomes affordable, I will switch to VOIP for local and long distance voice service through someone like SunRocket http://www.sunrocket.com for $200/year.
About the only reasons I don't switch to any kind of VoIP are 911 service (the 911 dispatcher knows where you are with regular phone service but not with VoIP), and the point that phone service doesn't necessarily go out when the power goes out, but VoIP service either goes out instantly during a power failure, or runs out in six hours when the built-in UPS runs out of battery power.
Everest gets around these difficulties by offering phone service over conventional phone lines, but other cable services offer VoIP which isn't as stable as POTS in extremely bad weather.
That ice storm a few years back knocked out the power for two days, knocking out cable service too (one battery-powered TV). Phone lines worked fine for both
days, allowing me to call the electric and cable companies for information.
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Leo Mauler wrote:
--- Garrett Goebel garrett@scriptpro.com wrote:
Whenever it becomes affordable, I will switch to VOIP for local and long distance voice service through someone like SunRocket http://www.sunrocket.com for $200/year.
About the only reasons I don't switch to any kind of VoIP are 911 service (the 911 dispatcher knows where you are with regular phone service but not with VoIP), and the point that phone service doesn't necessarily go out when the power goes out, but VoIP service either goes out instantly during a power failure, or runs out in six hours when the built-in UPS runs out of battery power.
There is supposed to be e911 now. They know where you are now because you tell them where you are, and the calls are routed to the 911 operator in your area. Eventually, I think it's supposed to be able to figure out where you are. That's kind of disturbing, yet comforting. Hmm.
I had a friend point out that if there was a real emergency, he would want to be on a cell phone anyway so that he could stay in touch with 911 while getting out of the house.
Everest gets around these difficulties by offering phone service over conventional phone lines, but other cable services offer VoIP which isn't as stable as POTS in extremely bad weather.
That ice storm a few years back knocked out the power for two days, knocking out cable service too (one battery-powered TV). Phone lines worked fine for both
days, allowing me to call the electric and cable companies for information.
All the phones in my house are wireless, and thus go out with a power outage anyway. I have a cell phone to call the BPU and/or Time Warner to report an outage. And if that doesn't work, too bad. I'll just sit in the dark for awhile. :-)
The only real reason that I need a land line phone is because I have teenagers. Sun Rocket includes two lines in their price. Perfect to have a teen on one line, and have the other ring through. If it weren't for the young'ns I would just have cell phones and internet. VoIP is just a transition.
Peace, Jim
On Wednesday 16 November 2005 06:01, Jim Herrmann wrote:
The only real reason that I need a land line phone is because I have teenagers. Sun Rocket includes two lines in their price. Perfect to have a teen on one line, and have the other ring through. If it weren't for the young'ns I would just have cell phones and internet.
Where's the logic in that? VoIP gives you *unlimited* lines... provided you have enough lines in your home and bandwidth, of course. The Linksys PAP2-NA supports two analog phone lines on separate wires, but I don't imagine it would be too hard to tie them together into a single wire. Of course, if you have all IP phones, then they all get their own line... only problem there is you can't just pickup on the same line to have two people talking on your end ;)
They give you two phone numbers that people can call. They still have to interface with the POTS at some point.
Peace, Jim
Luke-Jr wrote:
On Wednesday 16 November 2005 06:01, Jim Herrmann wrote:
The only real reason that I need a land line phone is because I have teenagers. Sun Rocket includes two lines in their price. Perfect to have a teen on one line, and have the other ring through. If it weren't for the young'ns I would just have cell phones and internet.
Where's the logic in that? VoIP gives you *unlimited* lines... provided you have enough lines in your home and bandwidth, of course. The Linksys PAP2-NA supports two analog phone lines on separate wires, but I don't imagine it would be too hard to tie them together into a single wire. Of course, if you have all IP phones, then they all get their own line... only problem there is you can't just pickup on the same line to have two people talking on your end ;)
On Monday 21 November 2005 00:21, Jim Herrmann wrote:
They give you two phone numbers that people can call.
No, I'm talking a single number. One person calls the number, you pick up on one line... another person calls, someone else picks up on another.... and so on.
They still have to interface with the POTS at some point.
Not on a one-line-per-number basis.
On Wednesday 16 November 2005 01:05, Leo Mauler wrote:
--- Garrett Goebel garrett@scriptpro.com wrote:
Whenever it becomes affordable, I will switch to VOIP for local and long distance voice service through someone like SunRocket http://www.sunrocket.com for $200/year.
About the only reasons I don't switch to any kind of VoIP are 911 service
Riverside has a alternate number for emergencies instead of 911 :)
(the 911 dispatcher knows where you are with regular phone service but not with VoIP),
If you can dial 911, why can't you say where you are? :\
and the point that phone service doesn't necessarily go out when the power goes out, but VoIP service either goes out instantly during a power failure,
Get a UPS...
or runs out in six hours when the built-in UPS runs out of battery power.
And I'm sure the POTS batteries will never die when the power goes out either...
That ice storm a few years back knocked out the power for two days, knocking out cable service too (one battery-powered TV). Phone lines worked fine for both days, allowing me to call the electric and cable companies for information.
Ouch... two days is much too long for power to be out :( What did people with electric heating do?
--- Luke-Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
On Wednesday 16 November 2005 01:05, Leo Mauler wrote:
--- Garrett Goebel garrett@scriptpro.com wrote:
Whenever it becomes affordable, I will switch to VOIP for local and long distance voice service through someone like SunRocket http://www.sunrocket.com for $200/year.
About the only reasons I don't switch to any kind of VoIP are 911 service (the 911 dispatcher knows where you are with regular phone service but not with VoIP),
If you can dial 911, why can't you say where you are? :\
If you ever have a condition, such as a heart attack, which causes you to gasp for breath and be unable to speak, but leave you able to dial the phone (or at least punch the 911 speed-dial button), you'll find out just how important it is to have the 911 dispatcher know where your phone is located, without any input from you.
And you would probably be surprised to find out that when, for example, you've just accidentally cut deeply into your thumb with a broken light bulb, and you can't seem to stop the flow of blood, you find yourself so panicked that you temporarily forget where you live. Thankfully the POTS system saved me, the 911 dispatcher knew where to send the ambulance. I'd hate to think what would have happened had I been on a VoIP system.
or runs out in six hours when the built-in UPS runs out of battery power.
And I'm sure the POTS batteries will never die when the power goes out either...
Yes, if you're dumb enough to have only cordless phones in the house. Apparently the POTS backup power kicks right in and lasts for days.
That ice storm a few years back knocked out the power for two days, knocking out cable service too (one battery-powered TV). Phone lines worked fine for both days, allowing me to call the electric and cable companies for information.
Ouch... two days is much too long for power to be out :( What did people with electric heating do?
We got very cold, which we told our friends with regular phone service. We couldn't tell our friends with VoIP service, their UPS batteries were dead after six hours.
__________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Every second counts with a 911 call. With POTS the 911 dispatcher can send a police unit and/or ambulance out to your home instantly. With VoIP or mobile service, if you are unable to provide location information yourself, the 911 dispatcher will have to contact this gentleman's service, wasting valuable seconds waiting for the location which needs a police unit and/or ambulance.
Until VoIP gains the same level of 911 service as POTS, I'm not going to switch to POTS. Anyone who has been through a life-threatening experience where they were unable to tell the dispatcher their location information should be able to agree with me.
Now, I have been told that Everest provides their bundled telephone service through the POTS, so they seem like a good alternative choice to SBC phone service. However, their service sounds like they aren't VoIP either.
--- Paul Taylor paul@kcnetcare.com wrote:
My team fields about 60+ calls a day from PSAPs that cannot get location or information from a caller who dialed 911. We assist PSAP operators by providing location of the device (VoIP or mobile).
Leo Mauler wrote:
--- Luke-Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
On Wednesday 16 November 2005 01:05, Leo Mauler wrote:
About the only reasons I don't switch to any
kind
of VoIP are 911 service (the 911 dispatcher
knows
where you are withregular phone service but
not
with VoIP),
If you can dial 911, why can't you say where
youare? :\
If you ever have a condition, such as a heart
attack,
which causes you to gasp for breath and be unable
to
speak, but leave you able to dial the phone (or at least punch the 911 speed-dial button), you'll
find
out just how important it is to have the 911 dispatcher know where your phone is located,
without
any input from you.
And you would probably be surprised to find out
that
when, for example, you've just accidentally cut
deeply
into your thumb with a broken light bulb, and you can't seem to stop the flow of blood, you find yourself so panicked that you temporarily forget
where
you live. Thankfully the POTS system saved me,
the
911 dispatcher knew where to send the ambulance.
I'd
hate to think what would have happened had I been
on a
VoIP system.
__________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com
Cheap location trick: prerecord your location and play it when the 911 operator picks up before you are connected.
On Saturday 19 November 2005 06:58, Leo Mauler wrote:
Every second counts with a 911 call. With POTS the 911 dispatcher can send a police unit and/or ambulance out to your home instantly. With VoIP or mobile service, if you are unable to provide location information yourself, the 911 dispatcher will have to contact this gentleman's service, wasting valuable seconds waiting for the location which needs a police unit and/or ambulance.
Until VoIP gains the same level of 911 service as POTS, I'm not going to switch to POTS. Anyone who has been through a life-threatening experience where they were unable to tell the dispatcher their location information should be able to agree with me.
Now, I have been told that Everest provides their bundled telephone service through the POTS, so they seem like a good alternative choice to SBC phone service. However, their service sounds like they aren't VoIP either.
--- Paul Taylor paul@kcnetcare.com wrote:
My team fields about 60+ calls a day from PSAPs that cannot get location or information from a caller who dialed 911. We assist PSAP operators by providing location of the device (VoIP or mobile).
Leo Mauler wrote:
--- Luke-Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
On Wednesday 16 November 2005 01:05, Leo Mauler
wrote:
About the only reasons I don't switch to any
kind
of VoIP are 911 service (the 911 dispatcher
knows
where you are withregular phone service but
not
with VoIP),
If you can dial 911, why can't you say where
youare? :\
If you ever have a condition, such as a heart
attack,
which causes you to gasp for breath and be unable
to
speak, but leave you able to dial the phone (or at least punch the 911 speed-dial button), you'll
find
out just how important it is to have the 911 dispatcher know where your phone is located,
without
any input from you.
And you would probably be surprised to find out
that
when, for example, you've just accidentally cut
deeply
into your thumb with a broken light bulb, and you can't seem to stop the flow of blood, you find yourself so panicked that you temporarily forget
where
you live. Thankfully the POTS system saved me,
the
911 dispatcher knew where to send the ambulance.
I'd
hate to think what would have happened had I been
on a
VoIP system.
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
On 11/19/05, Luke-Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
Cheap location trick: prerecord your location and play it when the 911 operator picks up before you are connected.
so then you have to carry your playback device with you whenever you plan to slash your thumb? no of course not, you have your asterix box set up to recognize when you are calling 911 and play the location when ever it detects dtmcf for 911 whizzing by -- right?
-- David L Nicol I like that guy -- he once gave me a fish
--- David Nicol davidnicol@gmail.com wrote:
On 11/19/05, Luke-Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
Cheap location trick: prerecord your location and play it when the 911 operator picks up before you
are connected.
so then you have to carry your playback device with you whenever you plan to slash your thumb?
Even worse, what if you are at a friend's house (say, replacing their light bulbs) when you slash your thumb? Your fancy dancy prerecording will just send the ambulance to your home instead of where you are bleeding to death.
Also, if you can't remember your own address, how can you remember to hit play on a recording device? I seem to remember I didn't have any hands free to dig a recoding device out of a pocket: one hand was bleeding and the other was frantically trying to stop the flow of blood. I had one finger on the bleeding hand free to dial the phone.
__________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
On Wednesday 23 November 2005 01:22, Leo Mauler wrote:
--- David Nicol davidnicol@gmail.com wrote:
On 11/19/05, Luke-Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
Cheap location trick: prerecord your location and play it when the 911 operator picks up before you are connected.
so then you have to carry your playback device with you whenever you plan to slash your thumb?
That's why it's the VoIP system playing the recording. If you're at your friend's house, then his phone system does whatever and your VoIP system never gets involved.
On Monday 21 November 2005 21:12, David Nicol wrote:
On 11/19/05, Luke-Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
Cheap location trick: prerecord your location and play it when the 911 operator picks up before you are connected.
so then you have to carry your playback device with you whenever you plan to slash your thumb? no of course not, you have your asterix box set up to recognize when you are calling 911 and play the location when ever it detects dtmcf for 911 whizzing by -- right?
Whizzing by? Asterisk is the one parsing 911 and making the call...
On 11/24/05, Luke-Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
asterix box set up to recognize when you are calling 911 and play the location when ever it detects dtmcf for 911 whizzing by -- right?
Whizzing by? Asterisk is the one parsing 911 and making the call...
Ah -- so there's a central voip line for 911? 911 voip dispatch? it seems the protocol for identifying location would be an open thing, making the location recording redundant. -- a well defined out of band channel would carry the info. Is 911 routing standardized from SIP or is it per-provider? that is, do fwd and braodvoice and whatnot all do it the same?
-- David L Nicol
On Friday 25 November 2005 20:19, you wrote:
On 11/24/05, Luke-Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
asterix box set up to recognize when you are calling 911 and play the location when ever it detects dtmcf for 911 whizzing by -- right?
Whizzing by? Asterisk is the one parsing 911 and making the call...
Ah -- so there's a central voip line for 911? 911 voip dispatch? it seems the protocol for identifying location would be an open thing, making the location recording redundant. -- a well defined out of band channel would carry the info. Is 911 routing standardized from SIP or is it per-provider? that is, do fwd and braodvoice and whatnot all do it the same?
1. I dial 911 on my phone 2. Asterisk parses 911 and looks up the extension for it 3. Asterisk connects to VoipJet to dial 18165551212 4. (optional) Asterisk plays pre-recorded location message 5. Asterisk connects the two phone channels
Everest cannot be POTS for 1 simple reason. The signal comes in over rg6, to a 'network interface device' where its converted to your typical analog signalling. The difference between Everest and other PSTN terminated VoIP carriers is that Everest doesn't give you a portable hardware endpoint. They know your location, and its registered with their 911 service. With other VoIP carriers (such as Nuvio/Vonage/Skype.) You can have hardware endpoints, and/or softphones. While you may have an 816xxx number in kansas city, you can drag it to Japan without having to update your address information with the carrier. This is probably the largest hurdle in the carriers providing 911, outside of the fact that getting interconnect agreements lined out with 911/e911 carriers takes time, and money.
There is an important distinction to make when talking about VoIP, PSTN, 911 and e911. 911 does not provide address information to the 911 dispatcher. e911 is the service that provides registered addresses to the e911 dispatcher. e911 functions by doing a lookup on the originating telephone number and cross referencing with ALI/ANI.
More information can be found at http://www.fcc.gov/911/ which references 911, e911, and 'mobile-satellite' 911.
On 11/19/05, Leo Mauler webgiant@yahoo.com wrote:
Every second counts with a 911 call. With POTS the 911 dispatcher can send a police unit and/or ambulance out to your home instantly. With VoIP or mobile service, if you are unable to provide location information yourself, the 911 dispatcher will have to contact this gentleman's service, wasting valuable seconds waiting for the location which needs a police unit and/or ambulance.
Until VoIP gains the same level of 911 service as POTS, I'm not going to switch to POTS. Anyone who has been through a life-threatening experience where they were unable to tell the dispatcher their location information should be able to agree with me.
Now, I have been told that Everest provides their bundled telephone service through the POTS, so they seem like a good alternative choice to SBC phone service. However, their service sounds like they aren't VoIP either.
--- Paul Taylor paul@kcnetcare.com wrote:
My team fields about 60+ calls a day from PSAPs that cannot get location or information from a caller who dialed 911. We assist PSAP operators by providing location of the device (VoIP or mobile).
Leo Mauler wrote:
--- Luke-Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
On Wednesday 16 November 2005 01:05, Leo Mauler wrote:
About the only reasons I don't switch to any
kind
of VoIP are 911 service (the 911 dispatcher
knows
where you are withregular phone service but
not
with VoIP),
If you can dial 911, why can't you say where
youare? :\
If you ever have a condition, such as a heart
attack,
which causes you to gasp for breath and be unable
to
speak, but leave you able to dial the phone (or at least punch the 911 speed-dial button), you'll
find
out just how important it is to have the 911 dispatcher know where your phone is located,
without
any input from you.
And you would probably be surprised to find out
that
when, for example, you've just accidentally cut
deeply
into your thumb with a broken light bulb, and you can't seem to stop the flow of blood, you find yourself so panicked that you temporarily forget
where
you live. Thankfully the POTS system saved me,
the
911 dispatcher knew where to send the ambulance.
I'd
hate to think what would have happened had I been
on a
VoIP system.
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
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crash3m -
David Nicol -
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Jim Herrmann -
Leo Mauler -
Luke-Jr -
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