Since I've been up to my eyeballs in Microsoft DST issues at work, I thought I'd take a breather and make sure that my Linux servers were okay with the upcoming change. I was pleased to note that my oldest server (running FC2) was fine.
My newer server, running FC4, had a problem. After reviewing many different blogs and postings, I thought I had it figured out but now I've completely messed up the Central Time Zone files in /usr/share/zoneinfo/America such that I no longer have data for the Central Time Zone. :)
I've set the server to use America/New_York (copied it over /etc/localtime) so I'm at least running in the Easter Time Zone.
I would like to re-install or re-update the tzdata RPM package, but it won't let me because it's already installed (and I can't uninstall it because glibc depends on it). How can I force it to re-install?
Also, since the Fedoral Legacy Project has shutdown my yum no longer functions or doesn't have a repository it can access. Any ideas on how I can get connected to one of the mirrors?
Thanks a bunch,
Jon Moss
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On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 12:28:47PM -0800, Jon Moss wrote: --snip--snip--snip--
I would like to re-install or re-update the tzdata RPM package, but it won't let me because it's already installed (and I can't uninstall it because glibc depends on it). How can I force it to re-install?
rpm --replacepkgs can help with that.
Also, since the Fedoral Legacy Project has shutdown my yum no longer functions or doesn't have a repository it can access. Any ideas on how I can get connected to one of the mirrors?
Some of these are still active today: http://fedoralegacy.org/download/fedoralegacy-mirrors.php
This one, for example: http://www.blagblagblag.org/pub/mirrors/fedoralegacy/fedora/$releasever/os/$...
Thanks a bunch,
Jon Moss
Hal Duston hald@kc.rr.com
On Tuesday 06 March 2007 14:54, Hal Duston wrote:
Also, since the Fedoral Legacy Project has shutdown my yum no longer functions or doesn't have a repository it can access. Any ideas on how I can get connected to one of the mirrors?
Some of these are still active today: http://fedoralegacy.org/download/fedoralegacy-mirrors.php
Are they maintained? If not, you're wide open to any new security holes.
I'm probably going to have to break down and upgrade from FC4 to FC5 or FC6. Or, find some new hardware, install a newer/different distro and migrate the databases, files and websites over to it. I've been looking on Craigslist today for KC metro area to try to find some cheap hardware. :)
Thanks again for all the quick help.
Jon
--- Luke -Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
On Tuesday 06 March 2007 14:54, Hal Duston wrote:
Also, since the Fedoral Legacy Project has
shutdown my
yum no longer functions or doesn't have a
repository
it can access. Any ideas on how I can get
connected
to one of the mirrors?
Some of these are still active today:
http://fedoralegacy.org/download/fedoralegacy-mirrors.php
Are they maintained? If not, you're wide open to any new security holes. _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
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On Tuesday 06 March 2007 03:05:23 pm Jon Moss wrote:
I'm probably going to have to break down and upgrade from FC4 to FC5 or FC6. Or, find some new hardware, install a newer/different distro and migrate the databases, files and websites over to it.
From what I've heard, neither the 4-5 nor the 5-6 upgrade can be counted on to
work. We had to build 5 on a separate machine and migrate. When it came time to go to 6, I decided that as long as we were doing a full install anyway, we'd move to a distro with a longer life cycle, better upgrade support, and useful backports.
Unfortunately, I chose Mandriva 2007.
I note that Ubuntu's server is still Dapper in long-term-support mode, not Edgy. Perhaps if I'd gone with 2006 things would have gone better, and several of the bugs I reported have since been fixed at least in the "cooker" stage of Mandriva, but it was clear that many of the server-specific packages had never actually been tested prior to release.
Next server upgrade will be to Ubuntu, we'll see how that goes.
I've been running ubuntu (kubuntu actually because I and my daughter like KDE) for a few months now. We both really like it.
I would like to try it on a server, so it too will probably be my next distro for a webserver/database server.
Let me know how it goes. :)
Jon
--- Jonathan Hutchins hutchins@tarcanfel.org wrote:
On Tuesday 06 March 2007 03:05:23 pm Jon Moss wrote:
I'm probably going to have to break down and
upgrade
from FC4 to FC5 or FC6. Or, find some new
hardware,
install a newer/different distro and migrate the databases, files and websites over to it.
From what I've heard, neither the 4-5 nor the 5-6 upgrade can be counted on to work. We had to build 5 on a separate machine and migrate. When it came time to go to 6, I decided that as long as we were doing a full install anyway, we'd move to a distro with a longer life cycle, better upgrade support, and useful backports.
Unfortunately, I chose Mandriva 2007.
I note that Ubuntu's server is still Dapper in long-term-support mode, not Edgy. Perhaps if I'd gone with 2006 things would have gone better, and several of the bugs I reported have since been fixed at least in the "cooker" stage of Mandriva, but it was clear that many of the server-specific packages had never actually been tested prior to release.
Next server upgrade will be to Ubuntu, we'll see how that goes. _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
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On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 03:01:18PM -0600, Luke -Jr wrote:
On Tuesday 06 March 2007 14:54, Hal Duston wrote:
Also, since the Fedoral Legacy Project has shutdown my yum no longer functions or doesn't have a repository it can access. Any ideas on how I can get connected to one of the mirrors?
Some of these are still active today: http://fedoralegacy.org/download/fedoralegacy-mirrors.php
Are they maintained? If not, you're wide open to any new security holes.
No they are not, so caveat emptor. There are no longer any maintained FC4 or earlier repositories.
-- Hal Duston hald@kc.rr.com
Anybody know of any reason not to use CST6CDT instead of America/Chicago?
Only my kubuntu system was correct; I presume because /etc/localtime was updated (RPM tries not to overwrite modified config files).
On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 02:57:25PM -0600, Jonathan Hutchins wrote:
Anybody know of any reason not to use CST6CDT instead of America/Chicago?
CST6CDT has a few historical gaps. 1920-1941,1943,1944,1946-1967 are missing. America/Chicago is only missing 1943 and 1944.
Only my kubuntu system was correct; I presume because /etc/localtime was updated (RPM tries not to overwrite modified config files).
First post to the list here. I've been using Linux for about a year now. I've often wondered why we have to select a LOCATION at all. Most people bright enough to be installing an operating system also probably understand what CDT and CST are. I would prefer a GMT offset, and choice of DST schemas. Further, does anyone know of a project to auto-determine current location by ip-geolocation, say of the first public IP when tracerouting some known-public host. This would be most convenient to those of us who travel. Also, is there any way in Linux to set the system default date format. Gnome is defaulting to a pretty format, but I'd rather dddd yyyy-MM-dd HH:mm:ss. I looked around, but its a hard thing to google, and no setting I could find took that effect.
On 3/6/07, Hal Duston hald@kc.rr.com wrote:
On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 02:57:25PM -0600, Jonathan Hutchins wrote:
Anybody know of any reason not to use CST6CDT instead of
America/Chicago?
CST6CDT has a few historical gaps. 1920-1941,1943,1944,1946-1967 are missing. America/Chicago is only missing 1943 and 1944.
Only my kubuntu system was correct; I presume because /etc/localtime was updated (RPM tries not to overwrite modified config files).
Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
On Tuesday 06 March 2007 04:09:18 pm Billy Crook wrote:
... does anyone know of a project to auto-determine current location by ip-geolocation, say of the first public IP when tracerouting some known-public host. This would be most convenient to those of us who travel.
http://www.ip2location.com/ has some script samples. It's not 100% reliable though.
Where did you get your zone files from? When I diff Chicago against CST6CDT on my system (already updated for new DST) there is no difference.
~Bradley
Hal Duston wrote:
On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 02:57:25PM -0600, Jonathan Hutchins wrote:
Anybody know of any reason not to use CST6CDT instead of America/Chicago?
CST6CDT has a few historical gaps. 1920-1941,1943,1944,1946-1967 are missing. America/Chicago is only missing 1943 and 1944.
Only my kubuntu system was correct; I presume because /etc/localtime was updated (RPM tries not to overwrite modified config files).
Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
Bradley,
I sourced from tzdata-2007c-1.fc6.rpm which in turn is sourced from ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata2007c.tar.gz. This difference is present there.
-- Hal Duston hald@kc.rr.com
On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 12:42:47PM -0600, Bradley Hook wrote:
Where did you get your zone files from? When I diff Chicago against CST6CDT on my system (already updated for new DST) there is no difference.
~Bradley
Hal Duston wrote:
On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 02:57:25PM -0600, Jonathan Hutchins wrote:
Anybody know of any reason not to use CST6CDT instead of America/Chicago?
CST6CDT has a few historical gaps. 1920-1941,1943,1944,1946-1967 are missing. America/Chicago is only missing 1943 and 1944.
On 3/8/07, Hal Duston hald@kc.rr.com wrote:
CST6CDT has a few historical gaps. 1920-1941,1943,1944,1946-1967 are missing. America/Chicago is only missing 1943 and 1944.
I grabbed that file and looked at it. The 'northamerica' file defines CST6CDT in terms of the 'US' rule, and defines America/Chicago in terms of the 'Chicago' rule and the 'US' rule. I see the same thing with NYC rules to flesh out the America/New_York timezone. That's just stupid. There's no good reason for there to be separate rules for each timezone governed by the same law.
There should be a basic US ruleset that covers the whole country, then timezones like New_York, Chicago, Denver, Los_Angeles, Anchorage, Honolulu; with the various Alaska zones, Indianapolis, Indiana/*, and other subdivisions of purely historical significance.
On Thursday 08 March 2007 06:52:12 pm Monty J. Harder wrote:
There should be a basic US ruleset that covers the whole country, then timezones like New_York, Chicago, Denver, Los_Angeles, Anchorage, Honolulu; with the various Alaska zones, Indianapolis, Indiana/*, and other subdivisions of purely historical significance.
Don't forget Arizona.
South American countries may use the same time zone names but different rules as well.
On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 06:52:12PM -0600, Monty J. Harder wrote:
On 3/8/07, Hal Duston hald@kc.rr.com wrote:
CST6CDT has a few historical gaps. 1920-1941,1943,1944,1946-1967 are missing. America/Chicago is only missing 1943 and 1944.
I grabbed that file and looked at it. The 'northamerica' file defines CST6CDT in terms of the 'US' rule, and defines America/Chicago in terms of the 'Chicago' rule and the 'US' rule. I see the same thing with NYC rules to flesh out the America/New_York timezone. That's just stupid. There's no good reason for there to be separate rules for each timezone governed by the same law.
Note the bit at the top of the Chicago section.
"US central time, represented by Chicago".
I read that to mean that these rules are not specific to Chicago, but rather all of CST.
Likewise "US eastern time, represented by New York"
So, I read the US rules as setting the national standard, and then the more regional rules to set the individual timezones before they to were conformed universally to a national standard.
There should be a basic US ruleset that covers the whole country, then timezones like New_York, Chicago, Denver, Los_Angeles, Anchorage, Honolulu; with the various Alaska zones, Indianapolis, Indiana/*, and other subdivisions of purely historical significance.
On 3/8/07, Hal Duston hald@kc.rr.com wrote:
So, I read the US rules as setting the national standard, and then the more regional rules to set the individual timezones before they to were conformed universally to a national standard.
There has apparently been only one time when DST rules were in effect, but not applied uniformly throughout all areas that do practice DST, which was when Hawaii went to DST for three weeks in 1933. The DST rules for NYC, Chicago, Denver, and CA vary only in those historical periods that the US ruleset is silent.
Prior to 1967, in peacetime DST was a local option. A state or subdivision thereof might have changed DST participation while the ones adjacent did not. I can confidently state that there has NEVER been a 'regional rule' that applied to the entire Central Time Zone but not to any other.
I stand by the statement that there should be a single US rule, 6 timezone definitions that use it (EST5EDT, CST6CDT, MST7MDT, PST8PDT, AKST9AKDT, HAST10HADT), and 4 that don't practice DST at present (AST4,MST7,HAST10 [aka HST10], ASST11), and the microzones that represent areas that have changed zones or DST use since 1970, such as the counties in IN that have moved between ET and CT, and toggled their DST use.
On 3/6/07, Jon Moss mossjon@yahoo.com wrote:
Since I've been up to my eyeballs in Microsoft DST issues at work, I thought I'd take a breather and make sure that my Linux servers were okay with the upcoming change. I was pleased to note that my oldest server (running FC2) was fine.
As a fallback position, you can add this line to /etc/environment:
TZ=CST6CDT,M3.2.0,M11.1.0
that defines the current ruleset. I researched this right after the law was passed, and since have been trying to get the powers that be at my company to adopt this as the solution for Unices without easy updates (for SCO and HP-UX, it's /etc/TIMEZONE, but the TZ syntax is the same).
Thanks to a script that Scott Medlock sent me, I've successfully and painlessly updated DST on my FC4 webserver (and fixed the missing timezone files I inadvertantly deleted).
Thanks for all the wonderful assistance. All of you are the greatest!
Jon
--- "Monty J. Harder" mjharder@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/6/07, Jon Moss mossjon@yahoo.com wrote:
Since I've been up to my eyeballs in Microsoft DST issues at work, I thought I'd take a breather and
make
sure that my Linux servers were okay with the
upcoming
change. I was pleased to note that my oldest
server
(running FC2) was fine.
As a fallback position, you can add this line to /etc/environment:
TZ=CST6CDT,M3.2.0,M11.1.0
that defines the current ruleset. I researched this right after the law was passed, and since have been trying to get the powers that be at my company to adopt this as the solution for Unices without easy updates (for SCO and HP-UX, it's /etc/TIMEZONE, but the TZ syntax is the same).
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-
Billy Crook -
Bradley Hook -
Hal Duston -
Jon Moss -
Jonathan Hutchins -
Luke -Jr -
Monty J. Harder -
Oren Beck