http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=519
Some interesting points can be found in this article. The msg threads can be either quite amusing or exasperating, at least to a point. If you have a zdnet account I hope you chime in. If you don't have an account, there's no big deal in making one. <wink>
ENJOY! Julie @};-
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The author needs to learn how search engines work. You can't converse with them like a person. "Why choose linux?" is not a smart query. Maybe "linux benefits OR advantages". Furthermore, the question is not why one would choose linux, but why one would choose windows. Especially when it is so obviously inferior.
And the last thing a newbie needs is a comparison of distros unless that comparison clearly puts one above all others. Too much choice is bad for most people. Take for example the windows market. There are varying degrees of "Home" and "business". A home user might want home, but maybe he thinks he wants something a little more. "business" sounds professional, lets get that, but wait, does that mean it will miss the fun things? But if he buys "home", will he miss the professional things? Too much choice is a recepie for confusion and frustration. That's why microsoft has "Ultimate". With a name like that, Gladys in accounting can feel like she's "getting everything".
The problem is linux doesn't have tiers, so it has no top tier. Until it does, sheeple won't know what they're supposed to think they want. [sic] Until it does, I'm handing out Ubuntu discs. When one of those doesn't boot right, they get Fedora.
On 6/22/07, Julie betelgeuse67stang@yahoo.com wrote:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=519
Some *interesting* points can be found in this article. The msg threads can be either quite amusing or exasperating, at least to a point. If you have a zdnet account I hope you chime in. If you don't have an account, there's no big deal in making one. <wink>
ENJOY! Julie @};-
Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48225/*http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.phpwherever you're surfing.
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On 6/22/07, Billy Crook billycrook@gmail.com wrote:
The problem is linux doesn't have tiers, so it has no top tier.
Isn't the top tier for linux called "Solaris?"
On Jun 22, 2007, at 5:06 PM, David Nicol wrote:
On 6/22/07, Billy Crook billycrook@gmail.com wrote:
The problem is linux doesn't have tiers, so it has no top tier.
Isn't the top tier for linux called "Solaris?" _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
David,
I don't see the humor or correlation in this. Are you okay? Maybe you are confused!
Linux... Solaris... I see nothing... get some rest!
William
On 6/23/07, William Harrington wwh04660@ucmo.edu wrote:
On Jun 22, 2007, at 5:06 PM, David Nicol wrote:
On 6/22/07, Billy Crook billycrook@gmail.com wrote:
The problem is linux doesn't have tiers, so it has no top tier.
Isn't the top tier for linux called "Solaris?"
I don't see the humor or correlation in this. Are you okay?
The points I was trying to make included such opinions as:
in the bigger picture, Microsoft is the upstart (compared with IBM, HP, AT&T, UC-Berkeley, Stanford, DEC, etc)
Commercial UNIX with commercial marketing tiers / product lines / all that stuff has existed for some time; Commercial linux now contains them -- RHEL or Fedora is a perfect example of a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_line"> "product mix."</a>
Allusion to current events in GPL versioning gossip
How many average users are going to know to type "linux benefits OR advantages" though? The average person doesn't realize the shortcomings of computers, especially when they still get results for questions (or even search engines like Jeeves ENCOURAGING them to...)
In regards to the article, I don't think this is "THE KEY!", but it's one more thing that microsoft has going for them- people know about it. heck, if some people would donate computers to schools on the requirement that they only run linux and FOSS, even ten schools, that could get thousands of kids using linux, and wanting to take it and use it at home. 50 computers per school (enough for one large lab or two normal sized labs), assuming 500$ each would only be a quarter of a million or so for every ten schools. If you consider the life of a computer in an environment where they hardly ever need upgrades (which the basic Code/Write Essay/Do Research schools do can be done easily on a decade old computer), and you consider they're probably getting about 300 new students a year, that could easily be 30,000 kids exposed to linux in a day-to-day environment, and curiosity could easily lead at least 1/20th (one kid in every class, on average) to adopt linux, that's 1,500 new linux fans. Should come out to be about 170$ for each of those 1,500- and then you've also educated the 30,000 about linux, so they're more likely to pick it up later, or at least know how to use it and be more likely to embrace it.
Of course, I just pulled those numbers out of a hat, but 170$ doesn't seem too bad to get new users- it would probably even be good business for a company like Linspire.
On 6/22/07, Billy Crook billycrook@gmail.com wrote:
The author needs to learn how search engines work. You can't converse with them like a person. "Why choose linux?" is not a smart query. Maybe "linux benefits OR advantages". Furthermore, the question is not why one would choose linux, but why one would choose windows. Especially when it is so obviously inferior.
And the last thing a newbie needs is a comparison of distros unless that comparison clearly puts one above all others. Too much choice is bad for most people. Take for example the windows market. There are varying degrees of "Home" and "business". A home user might want home, but maybe he thinks he wants something a little more. "business" sounds professional, lets get that, but wait, does that mean it will miss the fun things? But if he buys "home", will he miss the professional things? Too much choice is a recepie for confusion and frustration. That's why microsoft has "Ultimate". With a name like that, Gladys in accounting can feel like she's "getting everything".
The problem is linux doesn't have tiers, so it has no top tier. Until it does, sheeple won't know what they're supposed to think they want. [sic] Until it does, I'm handing out Ubuntu discs. When one of those doesn't boot right, they get Fedora.
On 6/22/07, Julie betelgeuse67stang@yahoo.com wrote:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=519
Some *interesting* points can be found in this article. The msg threads can be either quite amusing or exasperating, at least to a point. If you have a zdnet account I hope you chime in. If you don't have an account, there's no big deal in making one. <wink>
ENJOY! Julie @};-
Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48225/*http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.phpwherever you're surfing.
Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
On 6/22/07, Billy Crook billycrook@gmail.com wrote:
The author needs to learn how search engines work. You can't converse with them like a person. "Why choose linux?" is not a smart query. Maybe "linux benefits OR advantages".
This is the problem that Kozoru (the place where all the 1U rackmounts servers around KC suddenly came from) was working on. It worked, but when they sat test subjects down and had them use it, they had already been "trained" for keyword searching. They might put in a few questions, but they would shortly revert to keywords and end up defeating the advantages of the new tech. The tech got bought and moved to Ask.com, as one of the Ask VPs had a stake in Kozoru. Ever wonder why Ask.com suddenly started doing a bunch of commercials about a month or so ago, several months after Kozoru folded and Ask.com had time to get it integrated and working? ;)
Jon.
On 6/22/07, Jon Pruente jdpruente@gmail.com wrote:
On 6/22/07, Billy Crook billycrook@gmail.com wrote:
The author needs to learn how search engines work. You can't converse
with
them like a person. "Why choose linux?" is not a smart query. Maybe
"linux
benefits OR advantages".
This is the problem that Kozoru (the place where all the 1U rackmounts servers around KC suddenly came from) was working on. It worked, but when they sat test subjects down and had them use it, they had already been "trained" for keyword searching. They might put in a few questions, but they would shortly revert to keywords and end up defeating the advantages of the new tech. The tech got bought and moved to Ask.com, as one of the Ask VPs had a stake in Kozoru. Ever wonder why Ask.com suddenly started doing a bunch of commercials about a month or so ago, several months after Kozoru folded and Ask.com had time to get it integrated and working? ;)
Jon.
IIRC "Ask" is the current incarnation of what used to be called "Jeeves" A naming that was intentionally evocative of an olde English butler. With cartoonish theming carrying the meme a bit to extreme for many users. The focus difference with "Jeeves" being that conversational queries were handled more gracefully than other search engines of that time could. With the results often being either very much spot on or weirdly way off. I used it for "game show" questions or soft searches like " how many cover versions of the Johnny Cash song "ring of fire" are there ?
Oren
Very interesting stuff. I think that there is a gap in the documentation. On one side you will find docs that just explains the history of Linux, or simply that Linux exists in many different fruity colors (distros). One the other side, you will find docs that explain how to recompile the kernel to add support for something. It's the meat in-between that seems to be lacking. Weird things are missing one would think would be "out there" in plain sight. One of the latest truly helpful pages I have found is a comparison between Windows programs and Linux equals. Like if one runs Photoshop in Windows, use GIMP in Linux. How the hell is a newbie supposed to know that GIMP is what you run to do the same jobs one would do in Photoshop?
After reading the article and then reading everyone's posts, one argument came to mind that has not been mentioned. At the risk of sounding smug, what about, leave these newbies to their fuckin' Windows machines and take the money they pour into them. Linux is for more advanced computer users anyway. I don't believe that this is meant as a smug statement. Some would say I am saying I'm smarter that others. Bullshit. I am an experienced and more advanced computer user, this doesn't mean that I know how to plumb my way out of drowning! I know that there is a movement to try and get Linux into the mainstream to compete with Windows. Fine. But I think that Windows is good for most people who don't have the interest or computer understanding for more advanced computer usage. Those that do run Linux.
On 6/23/07, Oren Beck orenbeck@gmail.com wrote:
On 6/22/07, Jon Pruente jdpruente@gmail.com wrote:
On 6/22/07, Billy Crook billycrook@gmail.com wrote:
The author needs to learn how search engines work. You can't converse
with
them like a person. "Why choose linux?" is not a smart query. Maybe
"linux
benefits OR advantages".
This is the problem that Kozoru (the place where all the 1U rackmounts servers around KC suddenly came from) was working on. It worked, but when they sat test subjects down and had them use it, they had already been "trained" for keyword searching. They might put in a few questions, but they would shortly revert to keywords and end up defeating the advantages of the new tech. The tech got bought and moved to Ask.com, as one of the Ask VPs had a stake in Kozoru. Ever wonder why Ask.com suddenly started doing a bunch of commercials about a month or so ago, several months after Kozoru folded and Ask.com had time to get it integrated and working? ;)
Jon.
IIRC "Ask" is the current incarnation of what used to be called "Jeeves" A naming that was intentionally evocative of an olde English butler. With cartoonish theming carrying the meme a bit to extreme for many users. The focus difference with "Jeeves" being that conversational queries were handled more gracefully than other search engines of that time could. With the results often being either very much spot on or weirdly way off. I used it for "game show" questions or soft searches like " how many cover versions of the Johnny Cash song "ring of fire" are there ?
Oren
Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
On 6/23/07, Oren Beck orenbeck@gmail.com wrote:
IIRC "Ask" is the current incarnation of what used to be called "Jeeves" A naming that was intentionally evocative of an olde English butler. With cartoonish theming carrying the meme a bit to extreme for many users. The focus difference with "Jeeves" being that conversational queries were handled more gracefully than other search engines of that time could. With the results often being either very much spot on or weirdly way off. I used it for "game show" questions or soft searches like " how many cover versions of the Johnny Cash song "ring of fire" are there ?
Oren
That is the short of it. I just checked up on a few things and it was an Ask Jeeves co-founder that was on the board of Kozoru, and subsequently bought and moved the tech and the (unsold) servers and hardware to Cali. It seems that the Kozoru technology AIM-based BYOMS bot was working a few weeks ago, but it may be offline again now.
Jon.
On Saturday 23 June 2007 19:57, Jon Pruente wrote:
That is the short of it. I just checked up on a few things and it was an Ask Jeeves co-founder that was on the board of Kozoru, and subsequently bought and moved the tech and the (unsold) servers and hardware to Cali. It seems that the Kozoru technology AIM-based BYOMS bot was working a few weeks ago, but it may be offline again now.
There were no unsold servers, or anything else for that matter. OpenMethods bought everything they had left...
On 6/23/07, Luke-Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
There were no unsold servers, or anything else for that matter. OpenMethods bought everything they had left...
Ah, ok. When I was there with my friend, who used to work for them, picking up a load of servers (~20) and other stuff the gal told us that what was left over was being shipped off a few days later. If it all got bought up by you guys after we left, then there wouldn't be anything to ship. I have heard that the actual IP of the company went with Warthen, and I assumed that there was something left of the hardware that went with it. It's nice to know better.
Jon.
On Saturday 23 June 2007 21:17, Jon Pruente wrote:
On 6/23/07, Luke-Jr luke@dashjr.org wrote:
There were no unsold servers, or anything else for that matter. OpenMethods bought everything they had left...
Ah, ok. When I was there with my friend, who used to work for them, picking up a load of servers (~20) and other stuff the gal told us that what was left over was being shipped off a few days later. If it all got bought up by you guys after we left, then there wouldn't be anything to ship. I have heard that the actual IP of the company went with Warthen, and I assumed that there was something left of the hardware that went with it. It's nice to know better.
OpenMethods even got the gal... :p
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Jon Pruente -
Julie -
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RtX -
William Harrington