Unless I'm missing something it seems that the reason this was brought up is due to people abusing the mailing list. The original poster seemed to be asking for comprehensive leadership to address the issue of a few people misusing a resource or two.

However, the subsequent talk has been all about forming a corporation or something. Seems to me that what's needed is moderation. That's pretty easy to do. Have everyone discuss what is and is not acceptable to discuss on the mailing list and on IRC. You'll find that it's pretty common sense stuff. Most likely some rules nerd has already written up a concise list somewhere that you can steal.

Next, tell the two or three list trolls who will immediately complain and resist to STFU. I've only been here a few days and I think I can already spot a couple, so it should be pretty easy to figure out who has legitimate complaints and who are the jerks that are ruining the list and/or IRC for the others. Once the legit issues are worked out with the concise (concise is very important - KISS) list of standards, post them on your website and on the list. Give folks a week.

Identify an even-tempered old man (or lady) on the list who's known to be a frequent poster but doesn't participate in the stupid offtopic flamewars. Ideally he's not one of the people who is really upset about the off-topic postings and he's known to be reliable. Make him the forum or list Nazi (OMG Godwin!). Give him ban power. Let him post friendly reminders in threads that are derailing, and if folks persist, ban them. Permanently. Enjoy your now on-topic list.

Note: use a voting system of some kind if you have multiple even-tempered old men (or women) who would do well at the job, but don't get as crazy silly as some of the folks here have suggested. It's really not that big of a deal who wins or how accurate it is. The important thing is, and I can't emphasize this enough, SETTING STANDARDS. You might have to ban a jerk or two, but once you've done that the other kids will get in line (or go to the World of Warcraft forums and misbehave there).

If you want to have an un-ban policy or somesuch, go ahead. However, I'd like to point out that acting like a grownup should be a requirement for joining the list, and if folks cease acting like one even after being asked nicely I don't see why they should be allowed to repent and come back. After all, this isn't the Catholic Church (<--- deliberate attempt at levity, please don't compare me with Hitler).

Anyhow, feel free to disregard any of my suggestions if folks actually do want a more comprehensive organization. Make sure, though, that the person(s) wanting this organization aren't wanting it just to have it or because they think somehow that "more organization = more better". KISS baby, KISS.

Jeffrey.

P.S. Keep in mind that I'm not saying the list has to be a place where only rainbows and flowers are welcome - folks should be free to disagree or get critical of one another, as long as it doesn't get too personal. But it should be on topics that actually have some relevance to Linux/Unix/Computers/etc. Dumbass arguments about religion should be brutally punished. Cheers.

P.P.S. I can't emphasize enough how easy it will be to moderate the list once you've dealt with the troublemakers and have set standards (and advertised them). Once you change the tone, the list will change and people will go somewhere else for drama. Moderation will be an unusual event.

P.P.P.S. Think very seriously about moderated joining of the list. I changed KULUA to that five years ago, and spammers/recruiters/weird dudes from other countries went away. Make them answer a rather simple question, and deny everyone that doesn't give a response that indicates that they're local and interested in Linux/Unix.

P.P.P.P.S. I'm in a cheeky mood and apparently prone to lengthy email responses tonight. I could have summed up this email in simple terms - "ban the @#$%ers!" - but apparently got some weird itch to write a ton of copy. Sorry!

On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 10:34 PM, David Nicol davidnicol@gmail.com wrote:

In the event that (1) organization occurs and (2) the organized organization resolves that tossing tables and stomping people for talking trash about 'nix makes sense as a stunt as part of a marketing campaign, I volunteer to be the one to perform the table-tossing.

On Tuesday 18 March 2008, Bradley Hook wrote:

If Joe Blow doesn't like reading John Doe's emails, he can set up a rule to delete them.

And if it weren't for non-compliant clients like GMail, you could even tell your client to automatically delete replies (and sub-replies) to messages. So instead of clicking "delete", click "delete recursively".