KCLUG January 2005

kclug@kclug.org

67 participants
155 discussions

Open Source Values
by Jim Herrmann 04 Feb '05

04 Feb '05

I've been reading George Lakoff, and doing a lot of thinking about values, lately. My own values as well as those of others. I know what it is about open source software that appeals to my values. You can look at the list in my sig and get an idea of the values I'm talking about, and you can imagine how OSS fits into them, but I don't want to bias the discussion too much beforehand with my opinions. I will offer those up later. What I would like to know from some of you guys is, which of your values are best served by OSS? Please let me know either directly in confidence, or publicly to the list, where you consider yourself on the conservative/moderate/progressive political spectrum, and what it is about OSS that appeals to you. I'm especially anxious to hear from my LUG friends on the right of the spectrum, as that is more difficult for me to understand. Once I've heard several opinions, I plan to formulate some kind of summary explanation, or theory, that connects different values and the open source movement. Thanks for your input, Jim Herrmann -- Progressive Values ARE American Values Responsibility, Empathy, Freedom, Opportunity, Prosperity, Fairness, Trust, Honesty, Open Communication, Community, Cooperation

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Online Catalog
by Don Erickson 31 Jan '05

31 Jan '05

Hey, Luggites: I've been working on an interface for a client, and I'm having a hard time finding anything out there similar to it. Has anybody here seen a low-bandwidth, shopping cart enabled, searchable, cross-indexed, auto-scaling, real-time price updates from a database, zoomable, browser rendered HTML text web page generated from a PDF file? http://www.zeni.net/trf/WPS05/ No Microsoft electrons were bruised in this process. Regards, -Don

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RE: Online Catalog
by Brian Densmore 31 Jan '05

31 Jan '05

Works ok on my computer here at work. It works in my browser too (firefox 1.0 - W2K). ;') I can even read the pages in lynx, but my lynx doesn't have ssl support so I couldn't buy from there. There is a bit of alignment problem with the underline bar that should go under the column header rather than through it. Other than that it looked ok. Not sure I'd want to go through this catalog on a dial up connection. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Clinton > > > On Friday 28 January 2005 09:48 pm, Don Erickson wrote: > > http://www.zeni.net/trf/WPS05/ > > Just thought that I'd let you know that it doesn't work on my > computer. The > columns and content all overlap each other making the site unreadable. > >

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part time linux sysadmin needed, paid work
by jeffslists 31 Jan '05

31 Jan '05

I'm looking for someone to administer and update a commercial linux server I have been running for about four years. I provide email, web pages, domain hosting, and several other related services. This is not regular part-time work, but a way to make some money on the side. I have paying customers right now. I estimate you could make 1-4k per year working with me. You would not have to spend more than 2 hours per week, if that. You should easily make >$30 per hour. I know a lot of friends and associates who would like more internet services, but I don't have the time right now to add the required infrastructure to provide these services. The work to add this infrastructure should take a skilled administrator only 2-3 hours (though it might take me days.) (One thing I need done is a spam filter.) I would do the work myself, but I am focusing on my main business, voice-control systems, and I don't really like system administration much. I like software engineering far better. I also really like selling and marketing my internet services. I have passed up a lot of business because I haven't added the needed infrastructure to my server. Send an email to jeff(a)intelligentjukebox.com if you are interested. Thanks, Jeff -- "The most beautiful emotion we can experience is the mystical. It is the power of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their most primitive forms-this knowledge, this feeling, is at the center of true religiousness... Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

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web radio
by Brian Kelsay 29 Jan '05

29 Jan '05

[Long post] Somebody asked about web radio a few days ago. I got around to more than the stock answer this morning and these look hopeful. http://www.radio-locator.com/ http://www.web-radio.fm/ http://www.virtualtuner.com/ http://www.radiotower.com/ http://www.webradiolist.com/ http://www.vtuner.com/ I still stick by my answer of going to Shoutcast first for free streams, but the above links could take you directly to the web sites of land-based radio stations that also happen to stream. Some stations stream with better quality than others. On a side note, when I listen to talk radio during the day (980 am), sometimes I can't stand the AM hum so I listen on the web. Because of where I work and the proxy server they use, I can only listen to stations that stream on port 80. Oddly enough, I get Rush Limbaugh by going to 640am in Atlanta. This leads to some strange commercials and traffic reports. http://www.wgst.com/stream.html Some of these stations require you to subscribe with a username or email address and create a password. 710am in KC is one of those and I have to go to the site with IE or it doesn't work, due to some java scripting that is browser specific. I can only imagine that they do the user/passwd dance so that the marketing dept. knows who is listening online for demographics. It's still ad supported you know. Sort of off-topic: If you have a big collection of MP3 files like I do, you can set up a web server, get some form of domain name or use your IP, load Shoutcast server, icecast, or Apple's Darwin server to broadcast yourself. If it is just for you, then you don't want to publish it to the Shoutcast listings, but you could. There is also other software I have looked at for browsing your music collection online and building play lists, streaming, etc. Andromeda is one, but it is non-free and is one huge bloated PHP script. More reasonable is Jin-zora and Zina (Zena is not Andromeda). Those two have all or most of the features of Andromeda, but are broken down into multiple files so you could actually look at them and understand what's going on and they are free OSS projects. I'd still like to try them out and set up a Shoutcast stream too, just for fun. It's all just a matter of time and energy. Soon, little webserver, we'll be together more often. But that stuff is only if you are dissatisfied by the available music/talk enough that you want to tinker to get exactly what you want. I just want the choice. Brian Kelsay

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[OT] Yet Another Perl Conference North America 2005 announces call-for-papers
by glim＠mycybernet.net 29 Jan '05

29 Jan '05

YAPC::NA 2005 (Yet Another Perl Conference, North America) has just released its call-for-papers; potential and aspiring speakers can submit a presentation proposal via: http://yapc.org/America/cfp-2005.shtml The dates of the conference are Monday - Wednesday 27-29 June 2005. The location will be in downtown Toronto, Ontario, Canada. (Note that a different date block was previously announced, but has been moved to accomodate venue availability.) The close of the call-for-papers is April 18, 2005 at 11:59 pm. If you have any questions regarding the call-for-papers or speaking at YAPC::NA 2005 please email na-author(a)yapc.org We would love to hear from potential sponsors. Please contact the organizers at na-sponsor(a)yapc.org to learn about the benefits of sponsorship. Other information regarding the conference (e.g. venue, registration specifics) will be announced soon. We look forward to your submissions and a great conference!

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on the IBM patent "donation" to OSS
by Brian Kelsay 29 Jan '05

29 Jan '05

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/11/technology/11soft.html?ex=1263099600&en=c… Here is the salient point quoted from the end of the article: Today's move by I.B.M. is not aimed at a specific project, but opens access to 14 categories of technology, including those that manage electronic commerce, storage, image processing, data handling and Internet communications. "This is much broader than the contributions we've made in the past," said Jim Stallings, vice president for standards and intellectual property at I.B.M. "These patents are for technologies that are deeply embedded in many industry uses, and they will be available to anyone working on open-source projects including small companies and individual entrepreneurs.." I.B.M. executives said they hoped the company's initial contribution of 500 patents would be the beginning of a "patent commons," which other companies would join. I.B.M. has not yet approached other companies, Mr. Stallings said. I.B.M. will continue to hold the 500 patents. But it has pledged to seek no royalties from and to place no restrictions on companies, groups or individuals who use them in open-source projects, as defined by the Open Source Initiative, a nonprofit education and advocacy group. The group's definition involves a series of policies allowing for free redistribution, publication of the underlying source code and no restrictions on who uses the software or how it is used. Brian Kelsay

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RE: Open Source Values
by Brian Densmore 28 Jan '05

28 Jan '05

-----Original Message----- > From: Garrett Goebel > > > Brian Densmore wrote: >> Garrett Goebel wrote: >>> Brian Densmore wrote: >>>> >>>> Open source is about freedom, but not all government regulation is >>>> bad. >>> Freedom "to" or freedom "from"? >> Yes. Both. > I must strongly disagree. OSS enables people to do things. > Regulation protects you from things. So when you are talking > about OSS you are talking about a different kind of freedom > than that provided by regulations. Apples and oranges. These were two separate sentences. One talking about freedom. One about government regulation. Don't combine the two sentences into one, please. OSS is about freedom. That much we agree upon. You on the otherhand would like to see gov't regulation replaced with anarchy apparently. I, personally enjoy the fact that I can go to bed knowing that there is a police force out there that helps to prevent wholesale anarchy, and laws that set a guideline for what is and isn't acceptable in this society. I don't agree with a lot of the laws, but that doesn't mean I want to through them all away. >>>> I like knowing that not any Joe >>>> Schmoe can get a license to practice medicine, >>> In Kansas, a chiropractor can do a physical. >> But you have to be licensed as a chiropractor. > So what? A licensed chiropractor is in no way qualified to do a physical! Neither are a lot of doctors. You're point being? For what it's worth, I agree that a chiropractor isn't qualified to give a full physical. But that was your example not mine. > The whole "anything that can help" line of reasoning is a load of bunk. Do you have any children? > There are huge costs associated with governmental regulations. I don't care if it bankrupts the government. If one pedophile can be prevented from becoming a daycare provider it's worth it to me. (Before responding see later comment on self-regulation) > Regulations have tendency to grow and protect the established players No doubt. > Licensing Rules for Group Child Care Homes and Child Care Centers, > 19 CSR 30-62.102 Personnel, 1-L. And from a quick scan, I'm not sure that a > pedophile from KC, KS with a criminal record would show up in a review from > the Missouri State Highway Patrol... Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. It's likely you are wrong. The courts use the same method for checking on potential adoptive parents and one of the things checked for is felony convictions on child abuse and neglect. Don't ask me why or how. If you're really interested I can ask a State Trooper friend of mine. > I question the cost and effectiveness of government mandated compliance. > Government regulations are slow to change, rarely are written by reputable > experts in the problem domain, and often bog down in irrelevant minutia. ... > I trust word of mouth reputation more than a government license. ... I would love to trust word of mouth, but the problem is in order for that to be effective you need to know a lot of people. > If only there was less government mandating and more voluntary independent oversight... I would love to see companies be conscientious and all government regulation go away. Only that is unlikely to happen, in any commercial market in the US in the foreseeable future. >>>> The problem is some times there's too much and other times there's >>>> not enough. >>>No. The problem is that sometimes it is coercive and sometimes it isn't. >>Whatever. > I'm fine with that. I respect your right to have an opinion and wounded backlash > sarcasm. I don't however have to agree that you or anyone else has a right to coerce > me into compliance with your opinions. Regulation == force of law == coercion. Wow! Another item we agree upon. ;') > I don't mind at all if there is a pile of government specified best practices > from here to the moon. The problem here being companies that do not adhere to them to the harm of the people. That is why we now have child labor laws. About half of my Irish ancestors who immigrated here from Ireland were killed or maimed in factories, before those laws were passed. Because companies refused to self-regulate. There were better solutions to the government mandated laws, but better solutions are only better if someone is willing to actually implement it. There are better solutions than criminalizing p2p software or suing the crap out of teens, but unless the companies making the music are willing to implement it, it is irrelevant. >>>> I also like knowing that not just any Joe Shmoe can contribute to the >>>> official Linux kernel. There are regulations in place to prevent >>>> that. >>> Huh? I assume by official, you're talking about Linus' kernel and not >>> the NSA's. Anybody _can_ contribute to Linus' kernel. There aren't >>> regulations in place to prevent that >>Yes. Ok, let's see you upload a patch to the Linux archives. What you >>can't it has to be approved by Linus or one of his people? What you >>have to certify to them that you are free to contribute the code? Oh, >>they want a letter from your company, on company letterhead stating >>that? Ok, whatever. Have it your way there are no restrictions on >> submitting patches and code to the Linux kernel... >>in your little fantasy filled world. > Calling that a regulation is a bit of a stretch. Linus' process does not have > the force of law. You're conflating the ideas of "force of law to control conduct" > and "protect your legal ass". No even before the new policies Linus was careful about accepting changes. A large part of that is to ensure that garbage and backdoors don't get into the code. > What you're referring to is: http://www.osdl.org/newsroom/press_releases/2004/2004_05_24_dco.html No I wasn't. That's part of it and I included some of that in my wording. And as I said, but you clipped out: > There are self-governing processes in place to prevent people > submitting code encumbered by coercive licenses and patents. Self-governing == self-regulating > It's still an opt-in Absolutely. The fact is not all regulations are bad. Also not all government regulations are bad. In fact some are very beneficial. Ones like it is illegal to kill your neighbor because you disagree with his point of view. It allows us to argue back and forth with some reasonable assurance neither of us are likely to hunt down and kill the other. Of course there is no guarantee of that. Just like there is no guarantee that any company will obey any given regulation. > I've contributed to the Linux kernel in the past, and time > and ability permitting someday I'd like to contribute again. It was Linux more than > anything that inspired me to revisit the roots of my interests in computers and make > a profession of it. I've never contributed code to the kernel, but I have reported bugs and > followed through on requests for information. ... I've contributed code and documentation to many > projects and cross references to pertinent information between them. In only one case have I been > asked to provide legal documentation. And in that case, nothing ever came of the project. I knew you had, and that was the reason for that particular comment. Still I doubt any of the projects you contributed would have allowed you to contribute code anonymously. If so, please let me know so I can remove those programs from my system. >>> I hate it when people use the word fair. >> I can see you have issues. > Yes. This is one of them. > How is it "fair" that existing "regulations" require a Developer's Certificate > of Ownership to prove that code submissions are unencumbered by coercive licenses > and patents? How is it "fair" that Linux kernel developers have to prove their > innocence in a society that claims you are innocent until proven guilty? Two things. One how fair is it to allow people to steal the code from companies and give that code to someone else without the companies' permission? Life isn't fair, we must do what we can to improve that as best we can. Hence, the need for regulations when necessary and all other attempts have failed. Two, who ever said our society claims you are innocent until proven guilty? There is the presumption of innocence. As opposed to the presumption of guilt. One must prove guilt not innocence, that is all the law says. Don't stretch it into something it isn't. One is charged with a crime because of suspicion of guilt. Anyway enough of this. peace, Brian

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Mailman
by Chris Wagner 27 Jan '05

27 Jan '05

I was wondering if anyone could tell me if there's any way to display any kind of user information about the user apart from just the address on the Membership Management administrative interface...... Thanks, Chris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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[OT]Not for Profit Question
by Paul Taylor 27 Jan '05

27 Jan '05

Anyone know of a not-for-profit entity in Kansas City metro or surrounding area that might be interested in website and/or networking done for them? I've got a capstone project at Rockhurst that requires I help a non-profit upgrade/install for free and document the project thoroughly. Any suggestions would be welcome. You can e-mail me directly. Regards, Paul

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KCLUG January 2005