installing software (was RE: Palm Router)

[Leo J Mauler]

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:49:22 -0600 "Brian Densmore"
<DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com> writes:
> -----Original Message-----
> From:        Leo J Mauler
> 
> > On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 06:33:58 -0800 (PST) Brian D
> > writes:
> >> --- Leo J Mauler wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > Speaking as one of the few people who still 
> >> > bitches on comp.os.linux.advocacy that Linux 
> >> > has turned into an OS for higher-end computers 
> >> > (Debian may still work but I've never gotten it 
> >> > installed, and while I like Slackware no one 
> >> > creates packages or binaries for it),
> >>
> >> Slackware has packages? Since when? 
> 
> >Since always.  Back to version 7.0 at least.  Even has a package 
> manager.
> >
> > Slackware Version 7.0 is technically version 4.0.  Patrick 
> Volkerding was
> > ...
> [wink wink, I knew that. This was supposed to be a humorous email]
> 
> >> I thought they were just tar.gz? 
> 
> > In name only.  Also, they're abbreviated to .tgz.
> 
> >> You know most everyone makes a tar.gz "package". 
> >> Everything you could possibly want to install in Linux 
> >> comes with all the source you need or as a tar.gz 
> >> file. 
> 
> > No, everything you want in Linux comes as *source* 
> > in a tar.gz file.  As
>
> Sorry, but not all Linux software comes with the sources. 

Sorry, my *point* was that binaries rarely come in tar.gz, only sources. 
That is, when you can get software in a non RPM or non DEB format, its a
*source* tar.gz.

I wasn't making the claim that source is *always* distributed, just that
binaries are rarely distributed in a tar.gz.

> Just because Mr Volkerding uses a packaging system 
> doesn't prevent anyone from installing a binary or source 
> gzipped tarred archive of an application. 

True, but keeping track of things without a package manager is difficult
to say the least.

> This is not the Windows world, you are free to modify the installed 
> apps and never have to tell the package manager. 

If you know your C (or whatever programming language was used).  If you
don't, you're just as free to modify the installed apps as you are with
Windows.  The only difference is in the *nature* of the locked door
(which is that with Linux, the locked door has a window, ironically).  :)

> You entirely missed my one serious point, that no matter 
> what distro you use you can find binary and/or source 
> packages for almost anything you want. True not all apps 
> have binary tarred gzipped archived versions. 

And the fact is that most do not.  

I've been wanting to install additional software on my laptop.  I can do
most practical things on it in console mode, but I wanted something a
little more graphical than Frotz for gaming.  Every computer needs
something equivalent to "Solitaire" on it.  :)

Most of the games I'd like to use come as source-only, and I'm still
trying to track down the dependencies (or whatever else there is) which
prevent the sources from compiling.

> Also I wasn't suggesting using the debian packages. 

Good 'cause I'm frightened of compiling apt from source.  :)

> The debian sites also have the tarred gzipped 
> source for anything that they make a packages for. 
> So you can always dounload the source and compile 
> it. True some are harder to do than others, and it may 
> not be acceptable for all the *unwashed* masses. But 
> you know what, people need to learn more about what 
> they have on thewir computers and how to use them. 

The problem might be a lack of space to have all the required libraries. 
And if that turns out to be the case there are things which just won't
run on the laptop no matter how much I learn about the OS.

> If that means learning how to type in ./configure from a 
> shell prompt so be it. 

Oh, I wish all the sources I'd like to compile came with a configure
script.  

> I don't think we should dumb down the world just to 
> make it so someone can punch a button and have a 
> car pop out the other end. I think we need to *educate* 
> so that wee don't lose the knowledge. A "white coats 
> approach", hmmm... "those nice young men in their clean 
> white coats, they're coming to take me away" (or 
> something like that. Gee, I hope RIAA doesn't sue me 
> for that).

Wrong metaphor, and "they're coming to take me away" is a 
very old song which I don't believe is on any of the major labels.  :)

White coated professionals tending the computers.  Think "Deep Thought". 
First think about "The HitchHiker's Guide To The Galaxy" if the reference
is too esoteric.  :)

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