Palm Router

[Leo J Mauler]

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:26:01 -0600 "Brian Densmore"
<DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com> writes:
> Yes, but when are they going to make one for
> my old 8088 with 640KB on a 20MB HD? Hmm...?

Try ELKS, http://elks.sourceforge.net/. The system boots into about 200KB
RAM, and with apps only takes up 500KB of RAM.

> Seriuosly though, what could one use a 386 for
> these days? A router? A text-based web browser?
> A text based text editor? Is there even a light 
> enough X Windows implementation to use on it?

Why even think GUI?  Console is good enough for most things (though I
know how y'all are wedded to sending your E-mail in HTML).

> You wouldn't want to try and use open office on it
> or KDE. 

You wouldn't need to use either one on a 386.  Console apps run just fine
on a 386, and if you worry about fonts you don't belong in a writing job.

> It might be an interesting thing to do to see how 
> many uses we could come up with one of these 
> old PCs.

*Console-based Linux PC (this is a catch-all category).
  Uses of a console-based Linux PC: E-mail, writing, text terminal, 
  text-based web browsing, console games, svgalib games.

*Router/Switch (10Mbps max, ISA Ethernet maxes out at 10Mbps)

*Hub (10Mbps max)

*Dial-on-Demand Router (10Mbps max)

*Bridge to older network cabling (such as coax)(10Mbps max)

If we expand to include 386 laptops, you can add:

*Electronic Picture Frame

Also, bear in mind that while a 386 may be too slow to listen to MP3s,
you can still play audio CDs on your 386's CDROM drive.  So you can add
an additional use:

*Stereo Replacement
  CD-Player plus FM Radio (with ISA FM Card)

Building on that Stereo Replacement, the Line In on the sound card is
essentially like the inputs on a stereo.  You can use it to pipe in a
small radio and use the 386's audio capabilities to switch between
CDplayer and External Audio Source.  Alternately, pipe out your 386 audio
to an existing stereo, and use the rest of the system as a Console-based
Linux system.
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:        Brian Kelsay 
> Subject:        small Linuxes [was Palm Router}
> I am always fascinated by the floppy bootable and LiveCD distros.  
> Call it a hobby, sub-hobby, whatever.  Anyway I just found Small 
> Linux http://www.superant.com/smalllinux/  for 386SX w/ 2MB ram on 
> up.

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On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 06:33:58 -0800 (PST) Brian D <quiet_celt at yahoo.com>
writes:
> --- Leo J Mauler <webgiant at juno.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Speaking as one of the few people who still 
> > bitches on comp.os.linux.advocacy that Linux 
> > has turned into an OS for higher-end computers 
> > (Debian may still work but I've never gotten it 
> > installed, and while I like Slackware no one 
> > creates packages or binaries for it),
>
> Slackware has packages? Since when? 

Since always.  Back to version 7.0 at least.  Even has a package manager.

Slackware Version 7.0 is technically version 4.0.  Patrick Volkerding was
using realistic version numbers, and the other distros were upping the
version number when they changed a color in the installer.  So people
were going "hmmm, RedHat is version 7.0, Slackware is only version 3.5,
Slackware mustn't be as good as RedHat 7.0".  So Patrick released version
4.0 of Slackware as version 7.0 to gain some credibility.

> I thought they were just tar.gz? 

In name only.  Also, they're abbreviated to .tgz.

> You know most everyone makes a tar.gz "package". 
> Everything you could possibly want to install in Linux 
> comes with all the source you need or as a tar.gz 
> file. 

No, everything you want in Linux comes as *source* in a tar.gz file.  As
I stated, Patrick Volkerding creates all the packages for Slackware. 
There are very few *binary-only* Slackware .tgz packages created by
people other than Patrick Volkerding.

> Simply uncompress, and if applicable compile, 
> and you'vbe got it installed.

Yes, everyone makes a *source* tar.gz package.  Most places don't bother
with a *binary* tar.gz  package.  When you trust the source, and the
"compile time" on the older PC (and to make everyone quite clear, the
*original point* was "running Linux on a *low-end* PC") is measured in
days (or at least a day), being able to download a *binary* package makes
all the difference in the world.

> <warning>
> Stop complaining about non-issues. 
> Grow up and compile your own.
> </geek humor> ;')

Slackware has very few pre-made *binary* packages that weren't created by
Patrick Volkerding (for those not up on trivia, "the creator and
maintainer of Slackware").  This is the truth.  

It might not be an issue for *you*, of course.
 
OpenOffice.org does come as a tar.gz in binary format.  It isn't a
*Slackware package*, of course, and if you tried running Slackware's
package manager against it, it wouldn't install.

> <more humor>
> Oh yeah if you can't find it from a debian mirror
> it'll most likely be available from gentoo. 

Slackware doesn't support the .deb package structure.  It does have a
rpm2tgz type system, but as Patrick Volkerding hates .rpm he distributes
it with a massive "nothing this does is guaranteed or a reason to sue me"
disclaimer.

> Three words: Download, compile, install. There 
> are plenty of distros out there that will still install 
> on "ancient" hardware. 

Its down to Slackware, Debian, and Gentoo (though Gentoo with anything
other than a binary install is a recipe for boredom on older hardware). 
Mandrake now bitches about less than 64MB, and RedHat started the ball
rolling on "must have more than 64MB RAM" with 8.0.

Yes, we know how you have RedHat 7.x or lower running on older hardware. 
The point is that *current* *console* Linux shouldn't require 64MB just
to get it on the system!

> Just spend some time browsing distrowatch.  Plus 
> there is always LFS. Or you can always build your
> own customized from scratch Linux. You back in the
> Day, Linux enthusiasts would build their own systems,
> and there wasn't any of this lazy man's approach of
> downloading a "distro".
> </geek humor> ;')
> 
> </me reaches for asbestos suit, ducks behind rock.>

<Yorkshire accent> Yes, you used to get up in the morning half an hour
before you went to bed, ate a lump of cold poison for breakfast, you paid
your employer for the priviledge of going to work, then you came home and
your parents killed you and danced around on your graves.

Frankly I'm sick of this "white coats" approach to computing.  Bill Gates
(back when he was the *young* Anakin Skywalker, as opposed to the
*teenage* version), and IBM, as well as Steve Jobs, managed to make
computing available to the masses through an approach which did not
require a soldering iron and/or punch cards.  Now you're sitting there
metaphorically saying "whats the fuss about?  Pick up that soldering iron
and your stack of punch cards and get back to using older hardware
pre-1984 style!"

I'd thought we'd gotten past all that, and that Linux was busily handing
computing back to the masses (now that Bill Gates as Darth Vader was
busily taking power back from the masses).  Computing shouldn't be
limited to people with money and people with technical expertise (not
necessarily the same people).

Yes, when my car needs an engine we can do it like the old days: have a
team of horses pull the car.  Back in the Day, driving enthusiasts would
harness their own horses, and there wasn't any of this lazy man's
approach of finding a "mechanic".

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