RedHat

[Jason Clinton]

Jonathan Hutchins wrote:
> Sounds like you made the same mistake I did: you played mix-and-match
> with the RPM's.  You also used an outdated distro, tried to use GUI
> configuration tools, and did not take a consistent approach to system
> updated and modifications.

I don't know what 'outdated' is but I was using 7.0 after 7.1 came out.
Has RedHat adopted a policy of forcing you to upgrade to their latest
version (which may include buy it) to fix security holes?

> All of which I've been through too, and it's a great way to learn, but
> it's not RedHat's fault.

They included the tools in the distro and didn't include documentation
in the standard manuals on how to utilize the up2date command tool
properly. For all I knew at the time (as a newbie), there was nothing
BUT the GUI. No where did it say in any error message, "BTW: You may
have better luck with the obscure, hidden version of our update software
called 'up2date' available from the console." (This was two years ago.)
That's just not acceptable!

> Several of the config utils that they included, along with everybody
> else, weren't (some still aren't) ready for prime time.  Linuxconf has
> pretty much been run out of town on a rail, and you don't see it any
> more.
>
> Finding RPM's and dependencies is a bear - that's why I've given up on
> Mandrake, and it's GUI RPM managers don't work worth a darn; they can't
> ever find the dependencies, etc.
>
> RedHat's up2date, on the other hand, works like a charm - PROVIDED THE
> PACKAGE AND VERSION YOU WANT ARE AVAILABLE ON REDHAT'S SITE.

Never acceptable. You're at the mercy of a single distributor for your
entire system. There's been more than one case where RedHat (being the
cathedral it's become) has put things I'm interested in at the bottom of
its priority list. This doesn't happen with Debian and Gentoo because
they're bazaars. If even a smidgen of people are interested in something
happening, it only takes a few text file tweakings and a bugzilla filing
to get it implemented -- usually within a week.

Further, where Gentoo and Debian go out of their way to help you
understand the command line, RedHat would have you believe that
everything can be accomplished by the GUI. Hence the complete and under
frustration of running a RedHat system.

> Which means that they are a good platform if you want stability and good
> support.  I've found them ideal for the webserver I manage remotely,
> and I've even subscribed to the up2date service for my own home system

Exactly. This is where RedHat can thrive. They need to get out of
desktop distro market and stop confusing would-be Linux users with their
shoddy attempt at a Windows drop-in replacement. Linux is not ready to
drop-in replace Windows for Joe Average.

> Debian and SuSE are also well developed, experienced distros that have
> been around for a while, and if you can run them at all you can
> probably figure out the differences between a RedHat howto and what to
> do on one of them.

Most of the time, this is true. However, I have run in to instances
where a hardware or software vendor ONLY makes RPMs available for RedHat
and everyone else is left to fend for themselves.... not cool.

> However, if you want GUI configuration tools, go with Windows.  They
> have the better ones, and arguably the only complete ones.  If you're
> going to run Linux seriously, learn the SysV Config system and stick
> with it.

I agree. This is why I love Gentoo. RedHat's folly is their attempt to
keep it hidden from you. The problem is this: sometimes I want to config
something quick and dirty and other times I want to do it the long
educational way. RedHat fails on 50% of their quick and dirty attempts
(via a GUI or ncurses) and if you want to do it the long educational way
you don't get any help (nicely commented conf files).

Make no mistake: I think RedHat makes a great server distro. If you want
it to install and 'just work', it's great. If, however, you plan to
tweak, install, remove and customize software as much as the average
desktop user (which the original poster of this thread will do), then
RedHat, Mandrake and SUSE -- or any distro resembling a cathedral -- are
not for you.

--
Jason Clinton
I don't believe in witty sigs.