Proposed Web site redesign (beta)
Hi, I am working on updating the KcLUG website to be a dynamic content site via the XOOPS engine, other than a few graphics needed here and there I think it is ready for beta-viewing by the group. you can access the beta-site here; http://www.kclug.org/~shildreth/ I have created a Forum topic here (read only for public, to post a comment create a login; http://www.kclug.org/~shildreth/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1&forum... Not to sound ungrateful for any comments/suggestions, but lets try to make them constructive and productive to making a modern, updated, technical site for our group. I know you you Linux guys (myself included) tend to argue over semantics versus content ;) Thanks! Steven (Tallen)
Steven Hildreth wrote:
I am working on updating the KcLUG website to be a dynamic content site via the XOOPS engine, other than a few graphics needed here and there I think it is ready for beta-viewing by the group.
I have a comment regarding the meeting directions. (Story ID 2) All the hidden input elements are accompanied by a line break element. This makes for several large areas of empty white space on that page. -- Hal
Edited news article a bit, thanks. On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:33:07 -0600, Hal Duston <hald@kc.rr.com> wrote:
Steven Hildreth wrote:
I am working on updating the KcLUG website to be a dynamic content site via the XOOPS engine, other than a few graphics needed here and there I think it is ready for beta-viewing by the group.
I have a comment regarding the meeting directions. (Story ID 2)
All the hidden input elements are accompanied by a line break element. This makes for several large areas of empty white space on that page.
-- Hal
_______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
This is minor but KcLUG seems out of place maybe KCLUG or kclug. I remember you saying something about having a irc link to the #kclug channel, also if you add that you might add a link to download mirc too =). Thanks, JO On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:57:12 -0600, Steven Hildreth <sphildreth@gmail.com> wrote:
Edited news article a bit, thanks.
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:33:07 -0600, Hal Duston <hald@kc.rr.com> wrote:
Steven Hildreth wrote:
I am working on updating the KcLUG website to be a dynamic content site via the XOOPS engine, other than a few graphics needed here and there I think it is ready for beta-viewing by the group.
I have a comment regarding the meeting directions. (Story ID 2)
All the hidden input elements are accompanied by a line break element. This makes for several large areas of empty white space on that page.
-- Hal
_______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
_______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
-- dj_goku -www.djgoku.com- -www.tektronic.org-
hehe, I see a irc link on the page =) On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:05:37 -0600, djgoku <djgoku@gmail.com> wrote:
This is minor but KcLUG seems out of place maybe KCLUG or kclug.
I remember you saying something about having a irc link to the #kclug channel, also if you add that you might add a link to download mirc too =).
Thanks,
JO
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:57:12 -0600, Steven Hildreth <sphildreth@gmail.com> wrote:
Edited news article a bit, thanks.
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:33:07 -0600, Hal Duston <hald@kc.rr.com> wrote:
Steven Hildreth wrote:
I am working on updating the KcLUG website to be a dynamic content site via the XOOPS engine, other than a few graphics needed here and there I think it is ready for beta-viewing by the group.
I have a comment regarding the meeting directions. (Story ID 2)
All the hidden input elements are accompanied by a line break element. This makes for several large areas of empty white space on that page.
-- Hal
_______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
_______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
-- dj_goku -www.djgoku.com- -www.tektronic.org-
-- dj_goku -www.djgoku.com- -www.tektronic.org-
Steven Hildreth wrote:
Hi,
I am working on updating the KcLUG website to be a dynamic content site via the XOOPS engine, other than a few graphics needed here and there I think it is ready for beta-viewing by the group.
I like the look but the use of tables as a formating tool is explicitly discouraged by the powers that be: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ Specifically, the goal is to make the site make sense when read linearly. (As if you were looking at the site in lynx.) Here is an analysis of the new page: http://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby/bobbyServlet?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kclug.org... Here's some other troubles with the content: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kclug.org%2F%7Eshildreth%... As far as I know, there are no CMS's that use CSS as a layout tool -- CSS can addresses the WAI guidelines and allow the site to still look attractive. I would love to know of any CMS's that do use CSS for layout, though. Anyone?
Is w3/wia and w3/HTML compliance a requirement of the replacement offering? Never was mentioned to me when I offered to create a new modern, dynamic replacement site. No CMS stock package I have found (I have tested several for a previous project including; PhpNuke, PostNuke, Slashcode, eGroupare, Mambo, and XOOPS) generates either w3/wia or w3/HTML compliant code. My position is that if it renders well in Mozilla, Firefox, Konqueror and IE that is ensuring a wide enough target audience. Sure the Links guys will get pissed, but realistically I think we should ensure operability with the 99% audience - not degrade the overall visual impression for all to appease the 1% Other opinions? Regards, Steven (Tallen) On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 11:33:06 -0600, Jason Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com> wrote:
Steven Hildreth wrote:
Hi,
I am working on updating the KcLUG website to be a dynamic content site via the XOOPS engine, other than a few graphics needed here and there I think it is ready for beta-viewing by the group.
I like the look but the use of tables as a formating tool is explicitly discouraged by the powers that be: http://www.w3.org/WAI/
Specifically, the goal is to make the site make sense when read linearly. (As if you were looking at the site in lynx.)
Here is an analysis of the new page: http://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby/bobbyServlet?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kclug.org...
Here's some other troubles with the content: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kclug.org%2F%7Eshildreth%...
As far as I know, there are no CMS's that use CSS as a layout tool -- CSS can addresses the WAI guidelines and allow the site to still look attractive. I would love to know of any CMS's that do use CSS for layout, though. Anyone?
I agree completely. And I think the new site looks wonderful and offers a ton of functionality. Good work! Jon
Is w3/wia and w3/HTML compliance a requirement of the replacement offering? Never was mentioned to me when I offered to create a new modern, dynamic replacement site.
No CMS stock package I have found (I have tested several for a previous project including; PhpNuke, PostNuke, Slashcode, eGroupare, Mambo, and XOOPS) generates either w3/wia or w3/HTML compliant code.
My position is that if it renders well in Mozilla, Firefox, Konqueror and IE that is ensuring a wide enough target audience. Sure the Links guys will get pissed, but realistically I think we should ensure operability with the 99% audience - not degrade the overall visual impression for all to appease the 1%
Other opinions?
Regards, Steven (Tallen)
Steven Hildreth wrote:
Is w3/wia and w3/HTML compliance a requirement of the replacement offering? Never was mentioned to me when I offered to create a new modern, dynamic replacement site.
I'm sorry no one said so. Anyone who does web design should already be familiar with those requirement; it's something of a given -- perhaps Hal and Chris assumed you knew that.
No CMS stock package I have found (I have tested several for a previous project including; PhpNuke, PostNuke, Slashcode, eGroupare, Mambo, and XOOPS) generates either w3/wia or w3/HTML compliant code.
We may be able to yet find one that does.
My position is that if it renders well in Mozilla, Firefox, Konqueror and IE that is ensuring a wide enough target audience. Sure the Links guys will get pissed, but realistically I think we should ensure operability with the 99% audience - not degrade the overall visual impression for all to appease the 1%
Other opinions?
That's a fine opinion but it doesn't jive with good web citizenship. Standards are there for a reason; we don't want to go back to the days of "Site best viewed with browser X". The W3 has worked hard to make it possible to create both attractive and compliant sites. We already have a compliant site; lets just make it attractive.
On Tue, Nov 09, 2004 at 12:20:24PM -0600, Jason Clinton wrote:
Steven Hildreth wrote:
No CMS stock package I have found (I have tested several for a previous project including; PhpNuke, PostNuke, Slashcode, eGroupare, Mambo, and XOOPS) generates either w3/wia or w3/HTML compliant code.
Check out Drupal (http://drupal.org). It has different themes, some of which are pure or mostly CSS. The Interlaced theme (http://drupal.org/project/interlaced) is one of those. Plug in your CSS with the specified ids and classes, and you're set. Jeremy
Jason Clinton wrote:
Steven Hildreth wrote:
Is w3/wia and w3/HTML compliance a requirement of the replacement offering? Never was mentioned to me when I offered to create a new modern, dynamic replacement site.
I'm sorry no one said so. Anyone who does web design should already be familiar with those requirement; it's something of a given -- perhaps Hal and Chris assumed you knew that.
No CMS stock package I have found (I have tested several for a previous project including; PhpNuke, PostNuke, Slashcode, eGroupare, Mambo, and XOOPS) generates either w3/wia or w3/HTML compliant code.
We may be able to yet find one that does.
Such as plone? From http://www.plone.org: "Plone is standard. Plone carefully follows standards for usability and accessibility. Plone pages are compliant with US Section 508, and the W3C's AA rating for accessibility, in addition to using best-practice web standards like XHTML and CSS."
I took a look at the plone sites both with a screen reader and lynx, they render almost exactly like the proposed KcLug site. I'm not seeing a difference. I like Chris Bier's solution. We use what we have, and code on it to make it better. Gerald Combs wrote:
Jason Clinton wrote:
Steven Hildreth wrote:
Is w3/wia and w3/HTML compliance a requirement of the replacement offering? Never was mentioned to me when I offered to create a new modern, dynamic replacement site.
I'm sorry no one said so. Anyone who does web design should already be familiar with those requirement; it's something of a given -- perhaps Hal and Chris assumed you knew that.
No CMS stock package I have found (I have tested several for a previous project including; PhpNuke, PostNuke, Slashcode, eGroupare, Mambo, and XOOPS) generates either w3/wia or w3/HTML compliant code.
We may be able to yet find one that does.
Such as plone? From http://www.plone.org:
"Plone is standard. Plone carefully follows standards for usability and accessibility. Plone pages are compliant with US Section 508, and the W3C's AA rating for accessibility, in addition to using best-practice web standards like XHTML and CSS." _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
Steven Hildreth wrote:
and IE that is ensuring a wide enough target audience. Sure the Links guys will get pissed, but realistically I think we should ensure operability with the 99% audience - not degrade the overall visual impression for all to appease the 1%
Also, don't forget about Opera, screen readers, and web spiders. Check out http://www.wired.com/ for an example of a complex CMS system that's standards compliant.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Steven Hildreth wrote: | Is w3/wia and w3/HTML compliance a requirement of the replacement | offering? Never was mentioned to me when I offered to create a new | modern, dynamic replacement site. | | No CMS stock package I have found (I have tested several for a | previous project including; PhpNuke, PostNuke, Slashcode, eGroupare, | Mambo, and XOOPS) generates either w3/wia or w3/HTML compliant code. | | My position is that if it renders well in Mozilla, Firefox, Konqueror | and IE that is ensuring a wide enough target audience. Sure the Links | guys will get pissed, but realistically I think we should ensure | operability with the 99% audience - not degrade the overall visual | impression for all to appease the 1% | | Other opinions? | | Regards, | Steven (Tallen) | | | | On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 11:33:06 -0600, Jason Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com> wrote: | |>Steven Hildreth wrote: |> |>>Hi, |>> |>>I am working on updating the KcLUG website to be a dynamic content |>>site via the XOOPS engine, other than a few graphics needed here and |>>there I think it is ready for beta-viewing by the group. |> |>I like the look but the use of tables as a formating tool is explicitly |>discouraged by the powers that be: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ |> |>Specifically, the goal is to make the site make sense when read |>linearly. (As if you were looking at the site in lynx.) |> |>Here is an analysis of the new page: |>http://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby/bobbyServlet?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kclug.org... |> |>Here's some other troubles with the content: |>http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kclug.org%2F%7Eshildreth%... |> |>As far as I know, there are no CMS's that use CSS as a layout tool -- |>CSS can addresses the WAI guidelines and allow the site to still look |>attractive. I would love to know of any CMS's that do use CSS for |>layout, though. Anyone? I've already proposed this to the IRC channel, but why don't we work on making XOOP standards compliant? It would be a good LUG project. We'd be helping ourselves and others. I'm willing to help, but I won't be able to devote much time to it. Chris - -- I digitally sign my emails. If you see an attachment with .asc, then that means your email client doesn't support PGP digital signatures. http://www.gnupg.org/(en)/documentation/faqs.html#q1.1 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBkRK5E5xXU3JS1mQRAljsAJ9u8huCmRVlbDOa3TNZScK4dJZcDwCeNmB4 t1gderoWwJC8BWBBr63QyFo= =ewSa -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (9)
-
Chris Bier -
djgoku -
Gerald Combs -
Hal Duston -
Jason Clinton -
Jeremy Turner -
Jon Moss -
Steven Hildreth -
Tom Bruno