Stop editing the damn subject (was Re: The End Of Western Civilization (was Re: RoadRunner nonsense (was Re: fwd: RE: STFU RE))
See, now isn't that annoying? Cut it out, for the love of god. There is a reason emails have subject lines. It's so I can mute them in gmail, and not be bothered with that thread again. When people change the subject line it pollutes everyone's inbox, and breaks threaded reading and sorting. Stop It. Stop it now. Internet pollution kills baby seals. If you're going to change the subject line, change the damn subject, and write a completely different unrelated email. On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Leo Mauler <webgiant@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- Jonathan Hutchins <hutchins@tarcanfel.org> wrote:
On Tuesday 26 February 2008 13:06:06 Billy Crook wrote:
If one were to look at how their opt-out page works, you http get with a few args, one of which is your modem's mac address. You could just as easily post with any other cable modem's mac address, if say, you had multiple, and didn't want to visit each physical location of them, or maybe ....
... you could just type the correct url in the first place.
Yes, it's annoying. No, it's not the end of Western Civilization.
Get a grip, guys.
It may not be the end of Western Civilization, but its certainly being handled very insecurely by RoadRunner.
This guy (blogger link below) has done some poking around and discovered how RoadRunner is going about the "opt-in/opt-out" process for its new services (thats right, plural, see below), and it is a little scary from a security perspective.
http://rgov.org/road-runners-dns-wildcard
Basically RoadRunner is using an open HTTP GET request, and no SSL, for your "Preferences" page. It is possible for anyone to request the "Preferences" page for every single customer, and with this information you gain the geographical location of every single RoadRunner customer (and thus where to direct your own ISP's advertising to best effect, especially if you don't redirect "failed DNS requests" to an advertising page).
But RoadRunner has not one but *three* new services you can opt into or out of. Services which, when their options are set very unfavorably to the customer, result in an interesting and profitable situation for Internet Advertisers, and in particular a certain class of advertiser.
# Web Address Error Redirect Service: (the service everyone is complaining about, which sends you to a page containing ads from advertisers who are advertising with RoadRunner)
# Typo Correction Service: (fixes common typos in URLs, such as cmo or nte)
But the third one should be of some concern for those with small children:
# Safe Search Filter: "This preference allows you to restrict adult-oriented content from search results on the non-existing domain landing service."
Since there are only approximately 16,777,216 MAC addresses the way RoadRunner is handling the service, you could write a script which, for example, opted every RoadRunner customer *into* "Web Address Error Redirect Service", *out of* "Typo Correction Service" (which increases the possibility that the RoadRunner "Failed DNS Request" page will pop up), and *out of* "Safe Search Filter". And it wouldn't take long to run the script, or be much trouble to run it once a week.
And then you, as the owner of "Adult Content Website Advertising Consortium", then use the advertising revenue you collect from your adult website members to buy HUGE amounts of adult content web advertising. Every time a RoadRunner customer mistypes a URL, or types in a non-existent URL, the RoadRunner page will pop up and send adult content advertising related to the customer's failed URL request (Rule #34 of the Internet: "If it exists, there is porn of it.").
You don't even need to be an adult content advertising consortium. Just pay for "first placement" on the RoadRunner Ad Page...err, I mean "Failed DNS Request Page", and then run the script opting every RoadRunner customer *into* "Web Address Error Redirect Service" and *out of* "Typo Correction Service". The RoadRunner customer will see the RoadRunner "Failed DNS Request Page" more often than they would like to see it, and your ads will be seen more often than any other ad.
Spam has proven that many Internet Advertisers have no shame, decency, and/or ethics. This move by RoadRunner will be exploited, and exploited soon, and with any luck the complaints from customers (and the lawsuits from parents) will bring it to an end fairly quickly.
____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
_______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
Is that going against some kind of standard or RFC to change the subject line of a threaded messages thus sending the email off to some other thread that may not be related to what the thread was originally meant to be?
-----Original Message----- From: kclug-bounces@kclug.org [mailto:kclug-bounces@kclug.org] On Behalf Of Billy Crook Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 2:58 PM To: Leo Mauler Cc: kclug@kclug.org Subject: Stop editing the damn subject (was Re: The End Of WesternCivilization (was Re: RoadRunner nonsense (was Re: fwd: RE: STFU RE))
See, now isn't that annoying? Cut it out, for the love of god. There is a reason emails have subject lines. It's so I can mute them in gmail, and not be bothered with that thread again. When people change the subject line it pollutes everyone's inbox, and breaks threaded reading and sorting. Stop It. Stop it now. Internet pollution kills baby seals.
If you're going to change the subject line, change the damn subject, and write a completely different unrelated email.
On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Leo Mauler <webgiant@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- Jonathan Hutchins <hutchins@tarcanfel.org> wrote:
On Tuesday 26 February 2008 13:06:06 Billy Crook wrote:
If one were to look at how their opt-out page works, you http get with a few args, one of which is your modem's mac address. You could just as easily post with any other cable modem's mac address, if say, you had multiple, and didn't want to visit each physical location of them, or maybe ....
... you could just type the correct url in the first place.
Yes, it's annoying. No, it's not the end of Western Civilization.
Get a grip, guys.
It may not be the end of Western Civilization, but its certainly being handled very insecurely by RoadRunner.
This guy (blogger link below) has done some poking around and discovered how RoadRunner is going about the "opt-in/opt-out" process for its new services (thats right, plural, see below), and it is a little scary from a security perspective.
http://rgov.org/road-runners-dns-wildcard
Basically RoadRunner is using an open HTTP GET request, and no SSL, for your "Preferences" page. It is possible for anyone to request the "Preferences" page for every single customer, and with this information you gain the geographical location of every single RoadRunner customer (and thus where to direct your own ISP's advertising to best effect, especially if you don't redirect "failed DNS requests" to an advertising page).
But RoadRunner has not one but *three* new services you can opt into or out of. Services which, when their options are set very unfavorably to the customer, result in an interesting and profitable situation for Internet Advertisers, and in particular a certain class of advertiser.
# Web Address Error Redirect Service: (the service everyone is complaining about, which sends you to a page containing ads from advertisers who are advertising with RoadRunner)
# Typo Correction Service: (fixes common typos in URLs, such as cmo or nte)
But the third one should be of some concern for those with small children:
# Safe Search Filter: "This preference allows you to restrict adult-oriented content from search results on the non-existing domain landing service."
Since there are only approximately 16,777,216 MAC addresses the way RoadRunner is handling the service, you could write a script which, for example, opted every RoadRunner customer *into* "Web Address Error Redirect Service", *out of* "Typo Correction Service" (which increases the possibility that the RoadRunner "Failed DNS Request" page will pop up), and *out of* "Safe Search Filter". And it wouldn't take long to run the script, or be much trouble to run it once a week.
And then you, as the owner of "Adult Content Website Advertising Consortium", then use the advertising revenue you collect from your adult website members to buy HUGE amounts of adult content web advertising. Every time a RoadRunner customer mistypes a URL, or types in a non-existent URL, the RoadRunner page will pop up and send adult content advertising related to the customer's failed URL request (Rule #34 of the Internet: "If it exists, there is porn of it.").
You don't even need to be an adult content advertising consortium. Just pay for "first placement" on the RoadRunner Ad Page...err, I mean "Failed DNS Request Page", and then run the script opting every RoadRunner customer *into* "Web Address Error Redirect Service" and *out of* "Typo Correction Service". The RoadRunner customer will see the RoadRunner "Failed DNS Request Page" more often than they would like to see it, and your ads will be seen more often than any other ad.
Spam has proven that many Internet Advertisers have no shame, decency, and/or ethics. This move by RoadRunner will be exploited, and exploited soon, and with any luck the complaints from customers (and the lawsuits from parents) will bring it to an end fairly quickly.
______________________________________________________________ ______________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
_______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
_______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
Not really. RFC1855 - Status - Informational. http://www.rfc.net/rfc1855.html - Mail should have a subject heading which reflects the content of the message. - Subject lines should follow the conventions of the group. <top posted with full content by a business user - another irritant on this list - LOL!> Thanks, Ron Geoffrion 913.488.7664 A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? -----Original Message----- From: kclug-bounces@kclug.org [mailto:kclug-bounces@kclug.org] On Behalf Of Phil Thayer Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 4:34 PM To: kclug@kclug.org Subject: RE: Stop editing the damn subject (was Re: The End Of WesternCivilization (was Re: RoadRunner nonsense (was Re: fwd: RE: STFU RE)) Is that going against some kind of standard or RFC to change the subject line of a threaded messages thus sending the email off to some other thread that may not be related to what the thread was originally meant to be?
-----Original Message----- From: kclug-bounces@kclug.org [mailto:kclug-bounces@kclug.org] On Behalf Of Billy Crook Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 2:58 PM To: Leo Mauler Cc: kclug@kclug.org Subject: Stop editing the damn subject (was Re: The End Of WesternCivilization (was Re: RoadRunner nonsense (was Re: fwd: RE: STFU RE))
See, now isn't that annoying? Cut it out, for the love of god. There is a reason emails have subject lines. It's so I can mute them in gmail, and not be bothered with that thread again. When people change the subject line it pollutes everyone's inbox, and breaks threaded reading and sorting. Stop It. Stop it now. Internet pollution kills baby seals.
If you're going to change the subject line, change the damn subject, and write a completely different unrelated email.
On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Leo Mauler <webgiant@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- Jonathan Hutchins <hutchins@tarcanfel.org> wrote:
On Tuesday 26 February 2008 13:06:06 Billy Crook > wrote:
If one were to look at how their opt-out page > > works, you http get with a few args, one of > > which is your modem's mac address. You could > > just as easily post with any other cable > modem's mac address, if say, you had multiple, > > and didn't want to visit each physical location > > of them, or maybe ....
... you could just type the correct url in the > first place.
Yes, it's annoying. No, it's not the end of Western > Civilization.
Get a grip, guys.
It may not be the end of Western Civilization, but its certainly being handled very insecurely by RoadRunner.
This guy (blogger link below) has done some poking around and discovered how RoadRunner is going about the "opt-in/opt-out" process for its new services (thats right, plural, see below), and it is a little scary from a security perspective.
http://rgov.org/road-runners-dns-wildcard
Basically RoadRunner is using an open HTTP GET request, and no SSL, for your "Preferences" page. It is possible for anyone to request the "Preferences" page for every single customer, and with this information you gain the geographical location of every single RoadRunner customer (and thus where to direct your own ISP's advertising to best effect, especially if you don't redirect "failed DNS requests" to an advertising page).
But RoadRunner has not one but *three* new services you can opt into or out of. Services which, when their options are set very unfavorably to the customer, result in an interesting and profitable situation for Internet Advertisers, and in particular a certain class of advertiser.
# Web Address Error Redirect Service: (the service everyone is complaining about, which sends you to a page containing ads from advertisers who are advertising with RoadRunner)
# Typo Correction Service: (fixes common typos in URLs, such as cmo or nte)
But the third one should be of some concern for those with small children:
# Safe Search Filter: "This preference allows you to restrict adult-oriented content from search results on the non-existing domain landing service."
Since there are only approximately 16,777,216 MAC addresses the way RoadRunner is handling the service, you could write a script which, for example, opted every RoadRunner customer *into* "Web Address Error Redirect Service", *out of* "Typo Correction Service" (which increases the possibility that the RoadRunner "Failed DNS Request" page will pop up), and *out of* "Safe Search Filter". And it wouldn't take long to run the script, or be much trouble to run it once a week.
And then you, as the owner of "Adult Content Website Advertising Consortium", then use the advertising revenue you collect from your adult website members to buy HUGE amounts of adult content web advertising. Every time a RoadRunner customer mistypes a URL, or types in a non-existent URL, the RoadRunner page will pop up and send adult content advertising related to the customer's failed URL request (Rule #34 of the Internet: "If it exists, there is porn of it.").
You don't even need to be an adult content advertising consortium. Just pay for "first placement" on the RoadRunner Ad Page...err, I mean "Failed DNS Request Page", and then run the script opting every RoadRunner customer *into* "Web Address Error Redirect Service" and *out of* "Typo Correction Service". The RoadRunner customer will see the RoadRunner "Failed DNS Request Page" more often than they would like to see it, and your ads will be seen more often than any other ad.
Spam has proven that many Internet Advertisers have no shame, decency, and/or ethics. This move by RoadRunner will be exploited, and exploited soon, and with any luck the complaints from customers (and the lawsuits from parents) will bring it to an end fairly quickly.
______________________________________________________________ ______________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
_______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
_______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
_______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
On Mon, March 3, 2008 16:00, Geoffrion, Ron P [IT] wrote:
RFC1855 - Status - Informational.
- Mail should have a subject heading which reflects the content of the message.
Which means when the content of the message no longer bears any relation to the subject line, the subject line should change.
--- Jonathan Hutchins <hutchins@tarcanfel.org> wrote:
On Mon, March 3, 2008 16:00, Geoffrion, Ron P [IT] wrote:
RFC1855 - Status - Informational.
- Mail should have a subject heading which reflects the content of the message.
Which means when the content of the message no longer bears any relation to the subject line, the subject line should change.
And if the the new content is based on the content of the old subject line, the use of "(was re: ...)" is entirely appropriate. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
No messages here. See bottom.
-----Original Message----- From: Geoffrion, Ron P [IT] [mailto:Ron.Geoffrion@sprint.com] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 4:01 PM To: Phil Thayer; kclug@kclug.org Subject: RE: Stop editing the damn subject (was Re: The End OfWesternCivilization (was Re: RoadRunner nonsense (was Re: fwd: RE: STFU RE))
Not really.
RFC1855 - Status - Informational.
http://www.rfc.net/rfc1855.html
- Mail should have a subject heading which reflects the content of the message.
- Subject lines should follow the conventions of the group.
<top posted with full content by a business user - another irritant on this list - LOL!>
Thanks,
Ron Geoffrion 913.488.7664
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
-----Original Message----- From: kclug-bounces@kclug.org [mailto:kclug-bounces@kclug.org] On Behalf Of Phil Thayer Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 4:34 PM To: kclug@kclug.org Subject: RE: Stop editing the damn subject (was Re: The End Of WesternCivilization (was Re: RoadRunner nonsense (was Re: fwd: RE: STFU RE))
Is that going against some kind of standard or RFC to change the subject line of a threaded messages thus sending the email off to some other thread that may not be related to what the thread was originally meant to be?
-----Original Message----- From: kclug-bounces@kclug.org [mailto:kclug-bounces@kclug.org] On Behalf Of Billy Crook Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 2:58 PM To: Leo Mauler Cc: kclug@kclug.org Subject: Stop editing the damn subject (was Re: The End Of WesternCivilization (was Re: RoadRunner nonsense (was Re: fwd: RE: STFU RE))
See, now isn't that annoying? Cut it out, for the love of god. There is a reason emails have subject lines. It's so I can mute them in gmail, and not be bothered with that thread again. When people change the subject line it pollutes everyone's inbox, and breaks threaded reading and sorting. Stop It. Stop it now. Internet pollution kills baby seals.
If you're going to change the subject line, change the damn subject, and write a completely different unrelated email.
On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Leo Mauler <webgiant@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- Jonathan Hutchins <hutchins@tarcanfel.org> wrote:
On Tuesday 26 February 2008 13:06:06 Billy Crook > wrote:
If one were to look at how their opt-out page > > works, you http get with a few args, one of > > which is your modem's mac address. You could > > just as easily post with any other cable > modem's mac address, if say, you had multiple, > > and didn't want to visit each physical location > > of them, or maybe ....
... you could just type the correct url in the > first place.
Yes, it's annoying. No, it's not the end of Western > Civilization.
Get a grip, guys.
It may not be the end of Western Civilization, but its certainly being handled very insecurely by RoadRunner.
This guy (blogger link below) has done some poking around and discovered how RoadRunner is going about the "opt-in/opt-out" process for its new services (thats right, plural, see below), and it is a little scary from a security perspective.
http://rgov.org/road-runners-dns-wildcard
Basically RoadRunner is using an open HTTP GET request, and no SSL, for your "Preferences" page. It is possible for anyone to request the "Preferences" page for every single customer, and with this information you gain the geographical location of every single RoadRunner customer (and thus where to direct your own ISP's advertising to best effect, especially if you don't redirect "failed DNS requests" to an advertising page).
But RoadRunner has not one but *three* new services you can opt into or out of. Services which, when their options are set very unfavorably to the customer, result in an interesting and profitable situation for Internet Advertisers, and in particular a certain class of advertiser.
# Web Address Error Redirect Service: (the service everyone is complaining about, which sends you to a page containing ads from advertisers who are advertising with RoadRunner)
# Typo Correction Service: (fixes common typos in URLs, such as cmo or nte)
But the third one should be of some concern for those with small children:
# Safe Search Filter: "This preference allows you to restrict adult-oriented content from search results on the non-existing domain landing service."
Since there are only approximately 16,777,216 MAC addresses the way RoadRunner is handling the service, you could write a script which, for example, opted every RoadRunner customer *into* "Web Address Error Redirect Service", *out of* "Typo Correction Service" (which increases the possibility that the RoadRunner "Failed DNS Request" page will pop up), and *out of* "Safe Search Filter". And it wouldn't take long to run the script, or be much trouble to run it once a week.
And then you, as the owner of "Adult Content Website Advertising Consortium", then use the advertising revenue you collect from your adult website members to buy HUGE amounts of adult content web advertising. Every time a RoadRunner customer mistypes a URL, or types in a non-existent URL, the RoadRunner page will pop up and send adult content advertising related to the customer's failed URL request (Rule #34 of the Internet: "If it exists, there is porn of it.").
You don't even need to be an adult content advertising consortium. Just pay for "first placement" on the RoadRunner Ad Page...err, I mean "Failed DNS Request Page", and then run the script opting every RoadRunner customer *into* "Web Address Error Redirect Service" and *out of* "Typo Correction Service". The RoadRunner customer will see the RoadRunner "Failed DNS Request Page" more often than they would like to see it, and your ads will be seen more often than any other ad.
Spam has proven that many Internet Advertisers have no shame, decency, and/or ethics. This move by RoadRunner will be exploited, and exploited soon, and with any luck the complaints from customers (and the lawsuits from parents) will bring it to an end fairly quickly.
______________________________________________________________ ______________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
_______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
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Sorrry for top posting like that. :)
On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Luke -Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
On Monday 03 March 2008, Billy Crook wrote: No. Get a clue and use a real email client with actual threading support.
I would like to be enlightend to which MUA is considered a "real email client". Please elaborate. Thanks, Steven
On Tuesday 04 March 2008, Steven Hildreth wrote:
On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Luke -Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
On Monday 03 March 2008, Billy Crook wrote: No. Get a clue and use a real email client with actual threading support.
I would like to be enlightend to which MUA is considered a "real email client". Please elaborate.
I don't care, as long as it complies with the specs.
--- Billy Crook <billycrook@gmail.com> wrote:
See, now isn't that annoying? Cut it out, for the love of god. There is a reason emails have subject lines. It's so I can mute them in gmail, and not be bothered with that thread again. When people change the subject line it pollutes everyone's inbox, and breaks threaded reading and sorting. Stop It. Stop it now. Internet pollution kills baby seals.
If you're going to change the subject line, change the damn subject, and write a completely different unrelated email.
While I can't pretend to have been using the Internet since it was created, I can say with certainty that I am old enough to have used "bang paths" and Internet gateways to such services as Prodigy and Compuserve, which was a loooong time ago. And between that time and now, if someone replied to a thread with message content that was *slightly* different from the original subject's discussion content, but not enough that the folks who had been interested in the old thread would not be interested in the new thread, they edited the subject line by putting the old subject line in parentheses, with the word "was" to indicate the old subject line. While "it's traditional!" often leads to bad things like the burning of astronomer "heretics" and the failure to accept soap and proper daily hygiene as a good idea, it also leads to Igor getting your coach home by sunset so that the children of the night don't make beautiful music while they feast upon your corpse. So I'm sticking by my tradition of recycling subject lines. It's worked for at least 15 years, and your complaint is the first one I've seen about the practice. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
On Friday 07 March 2008, Leo Mauler wrote:
While "it's traditional!" often leads to bad things like the burning of astronomer "heretics"
You say that like it's happened, or that it would be a bad thing if it did.
Luke -Jr <luke@dashjr.org> writes:
On Friday 07 March 2008, Leo Mauler wrote:
While "it's traditional!" often leads to bad things like the burning of astronomer "heretics"
You say that like it's happened, or that it would be a bad thing if it did.
We should abandon subjects entirely and switch to web 2.0 tags for email. To: kclug@kclug.org X-Tag1: linux X-Tag2: mta X-Tag3: "subject lines" X-Tag4: recycle Er... maybe not. -- Thanks, Kyle Sexton
I'm about to the point of just pulling the power cord out and walking away in utter disappointment, I swear to god. The problem with the idea of subject lines is that it presumes the author of a message has some idea what they're talking about. On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Kyle Sexton <ks@mocker.org> wrote:
Luke -Jr <luke@dashjr.org> writes:
On Friday 07 March 2008, Leo Mauler wrote:
While "it's traditional!" often leads to bad things like the burning of astronomer "heretics"
You say that like it's happened, or that it would be a bad thing if it did.
We should abandon subjects entirely and switch to web 2.0 tags for email.
To: kclug@kclug.org X-Tag1: linux X-Tag2: mta X-Tag3: "subject lines" X-Tag4: recycle
Er... maybe not.
-- Thanks, Kyle Sexton _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
Sounded like a bit of good-natured fun to me. :-) -----Original Message----- From: Billy Crook Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 7:38 PM I'm about to the point of just pulling the power cord out and walking away in utter disappointment, I swear to god. The problem with the idea of subject lines is that it presumes the author of a message has some idea what they're talking about.
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 8:10 AM, Kelsay, Brian - Kansas City, MO < brian.kelsay@kcc.usda.gov> wrote:
Sounded like a bit of good-natured fun to me. :-)
-----Original Message----- From: Billy Crook Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 7:38 PM
I'm about to the point of just pulling the power cord out and walking away in utter disappointment, I swear to god. The problem with the idea of subject lines is that it presumes the author of a message has some idea what they're talking about.
It's situation based. In some non-task focused discussions topic/subject drift can be a VERY useful tool. In a needing to be structured situation it can frankly wreck historical review value.Trying to use a list archive for problem solving Vs nominal chat is indeed going to change one's feelings on the concept. SO- if we are flogging a political or social dead horse it's less deadly to drift topic/subject lines. IF we are working on something of future search value then managing subject line to content relationship IS important. And if not? The dangling bit intentional of course.. -- Oren Beck 816.729.3645
"Oren Beck" <orenbeck@gmail.com> writes:
IF we are working on something of future search value then managing subject line to content relationship IS important. And if not? The dangling bit intentional of course..
Interesting, I guess there are two methods to take when dealing w/ search-able content. 1. Post content[1] that is formatted to be easily searched 2. Post content and let the search engines figure out how to search it It used to be that people would develop better search engines to get more desirable results from a variety of content. Now everyone seems to be working on making content more easily searched. :) Footnotes: [1] Assuming what we argue about is actually worth being called 'content' -- Thanks, Kyle Sexton
--- Luke -Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
On Friday 07 March 2008, Leo Mauler wrote:
While "it's traditional!" often leads to bad things like the burning of astronomer "heretics"
You say that like it's happened, or that it would be a bad thing if it did.
Well, I don't know if its actually happened (though Galileo definitely got lifetime house arrest over "heretical astronomy"). As for being "a bad thing if it did", I suppose that's true too, at least in the case of the astronomers who stripped Pluto of its status as a planet. :( ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
On Monday 10 March 2008, Leo Mauler wrote:
--- Luke -Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
On Friday 07 March 2008, Leo Mauler wrote:
While "it's traditional!" often leads to bad things like the burning of astronomer "heretics"
You say that like it's happened, or that it would be a bad thing if it did.
Well, I don't know if its actually happened (though Galileo definitely got lifetime house arrest over "heretical astronomy").
I'm sure his arrest was merely "until he repented of his heresy" and quite justified. The heresy, of course, has little to do with the astronomy and rather was his add-on claim that his findings proved Holy Scripture to be errant.
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 10:25 PM, Luke -Jr luke@dashjr.org> wrote:<luke@dashjr.org%3E%20wrote:>"heretical astronomy").
I'm sure his arrest was merely "until he repented of his heresy" and quite justified. The heresy, of course, has little to do with the astronomy and rather was his add-on claim that his findings proved Holy Scripture to be errant.
Why are you here again?
I'm sure his arrest was merely "until he repented of his heresy" and quite justified. The heresy, of course, has little to do with the astronomy and rather was his add-on claim that his findings proved Holy Scripture to be errant.
Heresy is all relative based on a persons religion. For example, if you are a believer that the world is round and orbits around the earth, then you are a heretic in the Muslim world. According to one of the most respected Muslim scholars, Sheikh Abd-al-Aziz Ibn Abd-Allah Ibn Baaz (yes a member of the rather large Saudi Arabian Royal Family), in 1993 he issued a Fatwa declaring the following: "The world is flat. Anyone of the round persuasion does not believe in God and should be punished." This conclusion was reached through extensive studies of the Koran and Ahadith. Although after few years and merciless ridicule by the Egyptian press, he changed his statement to say that the world may not be flat but the sun Does in fact rotate around the earth and the earth is motionless. Keep in mind that in 1985 Prince Sultan Salman Abdulaziz Al-Saud (also of the rather large Saudi Arabian Royal Family) flew as a payload specialist on the space shuttle Discovery, and obviously SAW the round earth and its relation to the sun. So, to all you infidel heretics out there that do not believe in God, be careful you might be punished. Phil
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On Tuesday 11 March 2008, Phil Thayer wrote:
I'm sure his arrest was merely "until he repented of his heresy" and quite justified. The heresy, of course, has little to do with the astronomy and rather was his add-on claim that his findings proved Holy Scripture to be errant.
Heresy is all relative based on a persons religion. For example, if you are a believer that the world is round and orbits around the earth, then you are a heretic in the Muslim world.
That is only true to a limited extent. You omit to consider that Islam is false. When taken into consideration that only one religion is in fact true, you will realize that heresy, as well as morality and such, as quite objective.
That is only true to a limited extent. You omit to consider that Islam is false. When taken into consideration that only one religion is in fact true, you will realize that heresy, as well as morality and such, as quite objective.
True. There is only one true religion. That would be the one that a person believes to be true. Whatever that religion may be. Which is all relative to that person.
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On Tuesday 11 March 2008, you wrote:
That is only true to a limited extent. You omit to consider that Islam is false. When taken into consideration that only one religion is in fact true, you will realize that heresy, as well as morality and such, as quite objective.
True. There is only one true religion. That would be the one that a person believes to be true. Whatever that religion may be. Which is all relative to that person.
No, there is only one true religion period. Regardless of what you or I or anyone believes. If you choose to believe a false religion, that does not change the fact that it is false.
No, there is only one true religion period. Regardless of what you or I or anyone believes. > If you choose to believe a false religion, that does not change the fact that it is false.
Curious. Does this one true religion have a name? Thanks, Ron Geoffrion
On Tuesday 11 March 2008, Geoffrion, Ron P [IT] wrote:
No, there is only one true religion period. Regardless of what you or I or anyone believes. > If you choose to believe a false religion, that does not change the fact that it is false.
Curious. Does this one true religion have a name?
Sure, Catholicism.
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Luke -Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
On Tuesday 11 March 2008, Geoffrion, Ron P [IT] wrote:
No, there is only one true religion period. Regardless of what you or I or anyone believes. > If you choose to believe a false religion, that does not change the fact that it is false.
Curious. Does this one true religion have a name?
Sure, Catholicism. _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
What religion did Hitler truly honor? "Perhaps Godwin's law should be RoboRetroModerated?" -- Oren Beck 816.729.3645
Curious. Does this one true religion have a name?
Sure, Catholicism.
And in Catholicism, there is only one true God? And you would say that if a person believes in God being the only true God, the Creator, the Sustainer, the Lord of the Heaven and the Earth and all that exists; is on the right track? Correct? I did not disagree with that. What I did say is that there are different ways to commune with the God that you believe in. Whether it is according to the Catholic rituals of the Eucharist or the Muslim rituals of the Salah, they are worshiping the same God in different ways. If both believe is the same prophets of God (Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, etc...) then they believe in the same God. If both believe in the same original Divine Scriptures of the Old and New testament then they believe in the same God. If both belief in the existence of angels; belief in the Day of Resurrection and the Day of Judgment; Life after death; and belief in the doctrine that every human being is morally responsible of their own actions - good or evil then they believe in the same God. If they both belief that nothing can happen without the will and knowledge of God and that life in this world will come to an end one day when everything in this world will perish and God will bring all human beings back to life and judge, reward or punish them according to the deeds they did during this temporary life on earth then they believe in the same God These beliefs form the basic fundamentals of both Catholicism and Islam. Why is there so much animosity between them then? It's simple, because both of these religions believe that theirs is the ONE TRUE Religion and anybody who doesn't worship (not believe the same things, only worship) the same way they do is wrong and is going against their God and as such should be eliminated. That is where you get Crusades and Jihads. Which one is right?
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On Tuesday 11 March 2008, Phil Thayer wrote:
Curious. Does this one true religion have a name?
Sure, Catholicism.
And in Catholicism, there is only one true God? And you would say that if a person believes in God being the only true God, the Creator, the Sustainer, the Lord of the Heaven and the Earth and all that exists; is on the right track? Correct?
These beliefs form the basic fundamentals of both Catholicism and Islam. Why is there so much animosity between them then? It's simple, because both of these religions believe that theirs is the ONE TRUE Religion and anybody who doesn't worship (not believe the same things, only worship) the same way they do is wrong and is going against their God and as such should be eliminated. That is where you get Crusades and Jihads.
Which one is right?
If one denies a single doctrine of the Faith, they believe in a different 'god', since God is Truth. That is why Muslims, as well as other heretics such as protestants, worship false gods and are on a road to eternal punishment for it.
If one denies a single doctrine of the Faith, they believe in a different 'god', since God is Truth. That is why Muslims, as well as other heretics such as protestants, worship false gods and are on a road to eternal punishment for it.
And what single doctrine of the Faith do the Muslims and Protestants not belief that makes their gods less than your God? If your God is truth and only God knows the Absolute truth, how do you know that your truth is the Absolute truth of God. Who's to say that the Protestants are following the Absolute truth of the God that you believe in? Or that the Muslims are following the Absolute truth of the God that you believe in? Or maybe they are all following the truth that has been revealed to us in their own different ways and they are all right? Do you presume to know the Absolute truth of God? Wouldn't that put you on his level which would make you a false prophet.
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On Tuesday 11 March 2008, Phil Thayer wrote:
If one denies a single doctrine of the Faith, they believe in a different 'god', since God is Truth. That is why Muslims, as well as other heretics such as protestants, worship false gods and are on a road to eternal punishment for it.
And what single doctrine of the Faith do the Muslims and Protestants not belief that makes their gods less than your God?
I'm not overly familiar with Islam, but the most obvious heresy would be that they deny Our Lord's divinity. Protestants all deny a variety of different things, but the most common I think would be their denial of papal infallibility, or at least authority.
If your God is truth and only God knows the Absolute truth, how do you know that your truth is the Absolute truth of God. Who's to say that the Protestants are following the Absolute truth of the God that you believe in?
Protestantism was founded by men. The Catholic Church was founded by God Himself, and He guaranteed it would never teach error or mandate evil.
Or that the Muslims are following the Absolute truth of the God that you believe in? Or maybe they are all following the truth that has been revealed to us in their own different ways and they are all right?
If you say Jesus is not God, and I say He is, both of us cannot be right.
Do you presume to know the Absolute truth of God?
I follow the Church He founded, protects, and guides. The teachings of the Catholic Church are inerrant on matters of faith and morals.
Wouldn't that put you on his level which would make you a false prophet.
An entirely unrelated subject, but you would need to prove someone's statements false before they would be a false prophet. Until then, they could just as easily be a true prophet...
The astronomy proved the Holy Scripture to be errant. Without the astronomy Galileo had committed no heresy. The heresy had *everything* to do with the astronomy.
Galileo's claims on astronomy can never be proven nor disproven by science. He also could have claimed Scripture was merely metaphorical in regard to the Earth's movement, and committed no heresy. Or even not linked the two topics.
Heresy can be undocumented, as in a claim of geocentrism "just because you feel like it's true", but there's every indication that Galileo wanted to follow all the Christian dogma up until the point where his astronomy forced him to break geocentrism to avoid breaking a Commandment ("thou shalt not lie").
Truth will never contradict the Church's teachings, regarding Scripture or otherwise.
Our difference of opinion is that I'm saying *any* astronomy which contradicts a dogma is "heretical",
Anything which denies doctrine is heretical, yes, and therefore false.
Taking it back to Linux for a second, Luke-Jr does seem to have a rather dogmatic approach to Linux as well, since I seem to recall that he is always offended when someone mentions a device which requires a non-native-Linux workaround like ndiswrapper.
No, I have never stated a position on ndiswrapper, let alone insisted on it for everyone. ndiswrapper is in fact legal and fine in itself, as far as I'm concerned, even if it has some technical inferiority to Linux internal code.
Given his strict definition of Linux as a "free" (as in beer AND speech) operating system, I guess I should have tread more carefully when bringing up words typically associated with religion, such as "heresy."
Linux is not inherently free of charge, BTW.
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 8:34 PM, Luke -Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
Protestantism was founded by men. The Catholic Church was founded by God Himself, and He guaranteed it would never teach error or mandate evil.
<rant> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion/topics http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/CoEvan/forumsDebate.html http://lists.uua.org/ http://www.swcp.com/christian-fandom/link-d.html I quickly found several places where you can spew your babble, I would bet it would be topical and reveleant. One does have to give kudos to you for once again proving the need for moderators, moderators for both the mailing list and the IRC channel; excessive off-topic rambling, ignorant incorrect arrogant spoutings as fact, generally offensive remarks all with a touch of smug and distaste. Good job man! Drive those techno newbies seeking assitance and technical social interaction back to the rank and file of Windows with a bad taste of their "Wacky Linux Zealots" experience. Weeds out the weak I suppose. </rant>
On Wednesday 12 March 2008, Steven Hildreth wrote:
</rant>
Maybe you should ask Billy Crook what mail client he uses. It supports ignoring threads, which seems to be exactly what you're looking for.
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Luke -Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
Maybe you should ask Billy Crook what mail client he uses. It supports ignoring threads, which seems to be exactly what you're looking for.
Seeing that you 'contribute' to many threads, if I filter any thread with a response from you it would seem to near nullify the purpose of the list. Oh, I see what you did there. That must be your intention all along. Well played sir, well played.
On Wednesday 12 March 2008, Steven Hildreth wrote:
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Luke -Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
Maybe you should ask Billy Crook what mail client he uses. It supports ignoring threads, which seems to be exactly what you're looking for.
Seeing that you 'contribute' to many threads, if I filter any thread with a response from you it would seem to near nullify the purpose of the list.
I didn't say to ignore author. Do you not know what a thread is?
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Luke -Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
Seeing that you 'contribute' to many threads, if I filter any thread with a response from you it would seem to near nullify the purpose of the list.
I didn't say to ignore author. Do you not know what a thread is?
Why yes I do, thanks for asking. Ensuring no ambiquity on the receivers behalf is a nice new addition for you. My point is nearly all of your 'comments' are worthless. If I setup a filter to disregard any topic with a contribution from you, seeing your prolific pontificus nature, then I would continually receive threads referencing missing content. That would be somewhat confusing to me. See I like to actually know what I am talking about before I blather on excessively. But by all means, dont let my; logic, opinions or comments stop you from continually lecturing everyone on your religious ideologies - its perennially aired both here and the IRC channel. These are obviosly the right forums for both that and my opposing observations. Topics involving anything Linux are obviously better suited for other venues.
Phil Thayer <phil.thayer@vitalsite.com> wrote: That is where you get Crusades and Jihads. The Truth about Islamic Crusades and Imperialism http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/11/the_truth_about_islamic_crusad.html
No, there is only one true religion period. Regardless of what you or I or anyone believes. If you choose to believe a false religion, that does not change the fact that it is false.
So, there is only one true religion? And how many gods does your true religion have?
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--- Luke -Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
On Monday 10 March 2008, Leo Mauler wrote:
--- Luke -Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
On Friday 07 March 2008, Leo Mauler wrote:
While "it's traditional!" often leads to bad things like the burning of astronomer "heretics"
You say that like it's happened, or that it would be a bad thing if it did.
Well, I don't know if its actually happened (though Galileo definitely got lifetime house arrest over "heretical astronomy").
I'm sure his arrest was merely "until he repented of his heresy" and quite justified. The heresy, of course, has little to do with the astronomy and rather was his add-on claim that his findings proved Holy Scripture to be errant.
The astronomy proved the Holy Scripture to be errant. Without the astronomy Galileo had committed no heresy. The heresy had *everything* to do with the astronomy. Heresy can be undocumented, as in a claim of geocentrism "just because you feel like it's true", but there's every indication that Galileo wanted to follow all the Christian dogma up until the point where his astronomy forced him to break geocentrism to avoid breaking a Commandment ("thou shalt not lie"). Our difference of opinion is that I'm saying *any* astronomy which contradicts a dogma is "heretical", be that dogma the Galileo astronomy which proved that the Earth moved around the Sun, or the more recent Venus astronomy which challenged the notion that Uniformitarianism Geology could be applied to planets other than Earth (I saw an old documentary recently on the Magellan probe), or even the very recent astronomical opinion which stripped Pluto of its status as a planet, something which has made me very unhappy about astronomers in general. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Luke -Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
On Friday 07 March 2008, Leo Mauler wrote:
While "it's traditional!" often leads to bad things like the burning of astronomer "heretics"
You say that like it's happened, or that it would be a bad thing if it did.
Everyone here knows that Luke is a geocentrist, right?
participants (12)
-
Billy Crook -
David Nicol -
Geoffrion, Ron P [IT] -
James Sissel -
Jonathan Hutchins -
Kelsay, Brian - Kansas City, MO -
Kyle Sexton -
Leo Mauler -
Luke -Jr -
Oren Beck -
Phil Thayer -
Steven Hildreth