Hey, we have SBC calling us they are offering a compeditive bid to beat our other lowest bid. They are including Internet 512 or Full T-1. What do you think of their internet. I know there DSL is not the best esp when it comes to email. I keep my own email server, but have my systems relay out through the ISP's. Currently we have SBC dsl & UUNET sDSL. SBC does not work for us for email. UUNET sDSL does. I guess we could just keep our server running and fully use it. or given the price, keep a second ISP as a backup in general. Thanks Patrick -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.14/79 - Release Date: 8/22/2005
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 13:52:27 -0500 Patrick M <pert@tas-kc.com> wrote:
Hey, we have SBC calling us they are offering a compeditive bid to beat our other lowest bid.
They are including Internet 512 or Full T-1. What do you think of their internet. I know there DSL is not the best esp when it comes to email. I keep my own email server, but have my systems relay out through the ISP's. Currently we have SBC dsl & UUNET sDSL. SBC does not work for us for email. UUNET sDSL does. I guess we could just keep our server running and fully use it. or given the price, keep a second ISP as a backup in general.
As long as you're ok with a drop in speed. 512/T1s are slower than most DSL connections. --------------------------------- Frank Wiles <frank@wiles.org> http://www.wiles.org ---------------------------------
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Patrick M wrote:
Hey, we have SBC calling us they are offering a compeditive bid to beat our other lowest bid.
They are including Internet 512 or Full T-1. What do you think of their internet. I know there DSL is not the best esp when it comes to email.
SBC is pretty good, in my experience. I've heard some horror stories as to their services (which I don't use), but the basic internet connection has nearly always been there. As to email, just have them delegate (or host) your Reverse DNS and send it all yourself rather than relaying. Unless your IP is in SORBS or somethign, what is the point of relaying?
I keep my own email server, but have my systems relay out through the ISP's. Currently we have SBC dsl & UUNET sDSL. SBC does not work for us for email. UUNET sDSL does. I guess we could just keep our server running and fully use it. or given the price, keep a second ISP as a backup in general.
I live about a quarter mile from a switching station and really have to say the SBC static IP DSL has been amazingly stable since 1999. Regards, -Don
I added a ISDN/Voice question too? I don't do checks on connectivity. I just like the idea that if our text to email gateway can get out directly to the ISP's relay I know the connection is up. If I run my own email gateway, I have to make sure my staff checks the email and does not just assume the message went. Even then it can sit in the queue for several hours before it says it failed but will keep trying. I suppose I can adjust it. I also have gotten used to mail bagging. I can take the server down and know the messages will be available immediately when I bring it back up. I know the foreign computer is supposed to keep trying, but there will be more of a delay. And it can add to back flow spam if my computer rejects it after the mail relay accepted it. As for slowdown, Full t-1 should be about the same download as ADSL but it will be two way right? Heck they may be running it as SDSL for all I know. My current connection is: UUNET 384 sdsl & sbc 256/784 (256/1.5?)adsl I think ...we upgraded to static IP and higher upload speed We mostly do VPN In and out, email, and some Web stuff our page and surfing. I also figured the T-1/Frac-T would be less over subscribed. We also have a quote from NuVox and ATT.... how do we like them? NuVox talks up their spam block. On voice calls, they say they pull/DIP CallerID name from a master database in addition to just SBC. I know att delivers Name for Cell phones.... SBC on Pots lines does not. Should I make that a requirement on the PRI? Could they even do it since they "removed it" from their system? Don Erickson wrote:
SBC is pretty good, in my experience. I've heard some horror stories as to their services (which I don't use), but the basic internet connection has nearly always been there. As to email, just have them delegate (or host) your Reverse DNS and send it all yourself rather than relaying. Unless your IP is in SORBS or somethign, what is the point of relaying?
-- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.14/79 - Release Date: 8/22/2005
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Patrick M wrote:
I added a ISDN/Voice question too?
I don't understand what this sentence means.
I don't do checks on connectivity. I just like the idea that if our text to email gateway can get out directly to the ISP's relay I know the connection is up. If I run my own email gateway, I have to make sure my staff checks the email and does not just assume the message went.
Okay, but you STILL have no way of knowing if the message actually did go, only that it was accepted by the relay. If the message gets delayed it will still be hours before the mail server sends a 'message delayed will keep trying' message. On the other hand, if you run your own server you can just check the logs to see that the receiving mailserver accepted it, and when. Somebody pointed this out a couple of days ago, when kclug bounced his post.
Even then it can sit in the queue for several hours before it says it failed but will keep trying. I suppose I can adjust it.
You can adjust your server, but not your isp's. Alternately, if you've got two upstream providers anyway, there's a near zero chance that both are down at once.
I also have gotten used to mail bagging. I can take the server down and know the messages will be available immediately when I bring it back up. I know the foreign computer is supposed to keep trying, but there will be more of a delay. And it can add to back flow spam if my computer rejects it after the mail relay accepted it.
Yep, I'm definitely a believer in rejecting spam at the server. The envelope sender and return path are nearly always bogus on spam, so accepting and THEN bouncing spam to postmaster just makes things worse. Between SPF and spamassassin utilizing razor2 and a hack in the spf-milter to reject emails claiming to come from my own domain (this is low-hanging fruit, but it's amazing how many spam connections start with "HELO, I'm your domain or your IP address"), my mail server rejects nearly all of spam at the initial connection. Aside from bandwidth savings, this also has the advantage that if the email WAS legit, the sender knows what happened immediately and can take appropriate action. But, that said, if you have a system that works for you and that everyone is happy with, you should probably keep it.
As for slowdown, Full t-1 should be about the same download as ADSL but it will be two way right? Heck they may be running it as SDSL for all I know.
My current connection is: UUNET 384 sdsl & sbc 256/784 (256/1.5?)adsl I think ...we upgraded to static IP and higher upload speed We mostly do VPN In and out, email, and some Web stuff our page and surfing. I also figured the T-1/Frac-T would be less over subscribed.
DSL, in theory, can't be oversubscribed. A utility called nload can show you your bandwidth in and out, if you're interested. Filling the upload pipe slows the download and vice versa on DSL. This goes against my grasp of how DSL is supposed to work, so obviously my grasp is flawed.
We also have a quote from NuVox and ATT.... how do we like them? NuVox talks up their spam block.
Yeah, so does AOL. So, what do these prices look like? Regards, -Don
Don Erickson wrote:
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Patrick M wrote:
I added a ISDN/Voice question too?
I don't understand what this sentence means.
I was trying to figure out what we thought of each for voice services in addition to Data. I'll break down the specifics here. SBC/NuVox/ATT.... how do we like them? ATT: We have ATT now. Their contract has been up for over a year and they have not raised prices. They have a good and working product. There sales persons don't seem interested in renewing. They cost us thousands of dollars when they could not get us a firm install date, and then changed it. They have given us no compensation. They say they deliver ANI when CallerID is not available. They say they deliver Name with Number on CallerID, but are not currently. Large local calling area. ATT is about to merge with SBC. ATT delivers the correct name on cell phone calls on my other Lines. SBC: Don't know what to think of SBC. Don't know if they are including everything in there quote. They are saying the same thing as ATT. But are aggressivly perusing a sale. Below tariff. Why can't they offer everyone the same great price. Why fight for me if they will be losing money? Will they screw me next time like they are everyone else. They say they are not and have not been monopolistic. They are about to merge with ATT. They are the ILEC. They don't deliver Name on calls from cell phones. Will they raise their rates automatically and without notice when the contract ends. Could I require SBC to deliver Wireless name as a part of the contract. NuVox: NuVox says they offer one price and include everything. Can do Call forward & disconnect (2b Transfer) Without upgrading my equipment. They pull from a third party DIP for Caller ID Name but that party gets there data directly from SBC (Will cell phones show name vs "Wireless Call") I do not feel it approperate to give prices. With these deals I am not sure its allowed. I will state a range. You could get the same quote by calling the companies yourself. ~$1500-2000 For about ~1000 numbers 2 pri and ~512K Internet. All prices seem to be about the same. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005
And then there's signing up with a VOIP provider and using SIP phones over your data line, and to hell with the telephone company.
I was trying to figure out what we thought of each for voice services in addition to Data. I'll break down the specifics here.
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Patrick M wrote:
I do not feel it approperate to give prices. With these deals I am not sure its allowed. I will state a range. You could get the same quote by calling the companies yourself. ~$1500-2000 For about ~1000 numbers 2 pri and ~512K Internet.
Well, thankfully I have no use for a thousand phone lines, and what I don't know about switch configurations would fill several books. And actually does, come to think of it. I was marginally curious as to what a T-1 goes for these days. Regards, -Don
participants (4)
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David Nicol -
Don Erickson -
Frank Wiles -
Patrick M