I'm buying a new laptop really soon. What do the members of KCLUG recommend for a Linux only laptop. Pre-installed or no OS is fine with me, I just don't want to pay for something I'm never going to use. I'm willing to spend in the neighborhood of a grand, give or take a few hundred. So, I want a fairly nice machine, light weight for travel, but durable and reliable. And, it goes without saying, Linux friendly. You guys are super resourceful, so I wanted to tap into the vast knowledge base on this list. Thanks in advance for your input. Jim Herrmann
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 04/19/2011 07:49 AM, Jim Herrmann wrote:
I'm buying a new laptop really soon. What do the members of KCLUG recommend for a Linux only laptop. Pre-installed or no OS is fine with me, I just don't want to pay for something I'm never going to use. I'm willing to spend in the neighborhood of a grand, give or take a few hundred. So, I want a fairly nice machine, light weight for travel, but durable and reliable. And, it goes without saying, Linux friendly. You guys are super resourceful, so I wanted to tap into the vast knowledge base on this list.
Thanks in advance for your input.
Totally depends on what you need. I need a mobile workstation, as I travel for a living and my laptop is my primary machine. To that end, I've been on Thinkpad T series laptops for the last 5 years and been very very happy. You can get the Thinkpads with Intel video, Intel NIC and Intel wifi, all of which Just Work(TM) under Linux. No third party crap, no closed source binary garbage, just the stock kernel. I am using a T510 right now - 15.6" screen, dual-core i7 CPU, 500GB SATA drive, 8GB memory, Intel NIC/video/wifi. Couldn't be happier. The T520 is out. Haven't gotten my hands on one, but if it's anything like the T510, it's a freaking rocket. I just played with the configurator and came up with this for $1728 (a steal): Description ThinkPad T520 - 1 Yr Depot Topseller Warranty Processor: Intel Core i7-2620M Processor (2.70GHz, 4MB L3) Operating system: Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Operating system language: Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 US English Display type: 15.6" FHD (1920 x 1080) LED Backlit Anti-Glare Display, Mobile Broadband Ready System graphics: Intel HD Graphics 3000 Total memory: 2 GB PC3-10600 DDR3 SDRAM 1333MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM) Keyboard: Keyboard US English Camera: 720p Camera Hard drive: 500 GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm Optical device: DVD recordable multiburner System expansion slots: Express Card Slot & 4 in 1 Card Reader & Smart Card Reader Battery: 9 cell Li-Ion Battery - 55++ Power cord: Country Pack North America with Line cord & 65W AC adapter Bluetooth: Bluetooth 3.0 Integrated WiFi wireless LAN adapters: Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (3x3 AGN) Integrated mobile broadband: Integrated Mobile Broadband - Upgradable Language pack: Language Pack US English Accessories and options: 3Yr Basic Warranty Extension - -- Thomas Cameron, RHCA, RHCSS, RHCDS, RHCVA, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT Managing Solutions Architect 512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 800-451-8679 x 8417915082 bridge http://people.redhat.com/tcameron/ IRC: choirboy / AIM: rhelguy / Yahoo: rhce_guy -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Red Hat - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2tlPQACgkQmzle50YHwaC1JQCgyjFRECYCZMMZst0yEBau1KIF n+sAoJHnqXH8qJetxQAQWhcfYx61irsH =8zIu -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 08:58, thomas@redhat.com <thomas@redhat.com> wrote:
The T520 is out. Haven't gotten my hands on one, but if it's anything like the T510, it's a freaking rocket. I just played with the configurator and came up with this for $1728 (a steal):
I have the T520 configured pretty close to as-quoted and could bring it to the May 4th meeting if you want to evaluate it, Jim. Upgraded from a T400 a few weeks ago and I'm very pleased.
I was looking at a T520 and the T420. Look like pretty sweet machines. A bit more expensive than the Idea Pads and other maker's models. I suppose you get the quality you pay for. I am leaning towards the 520 despite the price. Sounds like an awesome machine. 6 lbs and 7 hours. Sweet. Has anyone had any experience with these folks: http://www.pcsforeveryone.com On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com>wrote:
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 08:58, thomas@redhat.com <thomas@redhat.com>wrote:
The T520 is out. Haven't gotten my hands on one, but if it's anything like the T510, it's a freaking rocket. I just played with the configurator and came up with this for $1728 (a steal):
I have the T520 configured pretty close to as-quoted and could bring it to the May 4th meeting if you want to evaluate it, Jim.
Upgraded from a T400 a few weeks ago and I'm very pleased.
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
I found that MicroCenter has this Lenovo IdeaPad Z560 in stock in the store: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0353128 It looks like a powerful machine for the money. I am currently on an Idea pad. It's had a few little oddities, but has generally worked reliably. The thing I like about this deal is that I can walk in to MicroCenter and walk out with a computer. And there's the support the local brick and mortar biz thing too. Thoughts? Jim On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
I was looking at a T520 and the T420. Look like pretty sweet machines. A bit more expensive than the Idea Pads and other maker's models. I suppose you get the quality you pay for. I am leaning towards the 520 despite the price. Sounds like an awesome machine. 6 lbs and 7 hours. Sweet.
Has anyone had any experience with these folks: http://www.pcsforeveryone.com
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com>wrote:
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 08:58, thomas@redhat.com <thomas@redhat.com>wrote:
The T520 is out. Haven't gotten my hands on one, but if it's anything like the T510, it's a freaking rocket. I just played with the configurator and came up with this for $1728 (a steal):
I have the T520 configured pretty close to as-quoted and could bring it to the May 4th meeting if you want to evaluate it, Jim.
Upgraded from a T400 a few weeks ago and I'm very pleased.
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
Two red flags: last generation CPU and memory and that WiFi is almost certainly a RealTek. If you're okay with both of those, then I'd say it's a pretty good deal and you should go for it. On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 16:01, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
I found that MicroCenter has this Lenovo IdeaPad Z560 in stock in the store: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0353128
It looks like a powerful machine for the money. I am currently on an Idea pad. It's had a few little oddities, but has generally worked reliably.
The thing I like about this deal is that I can walk in to MicroCenter and walk out with a computer. And there's the support the local brick and mortar biz thing too.
Thoughts? Jim
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
I was looking at a T520 and the T420. Look like pretty sweet machines. A bit more expensive than the Idea Pads and other maker's models. I suppose you get the quality you pay for. I am leaning towards the 520 despite the price. Sounds like an awesome machine. 6 lbs and 7 hours. Sweet.
Has anyone had any experience with these folks: http://www.pcsforeveryone.com
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com>wrote:
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 08:58, thomas@redhat.com <thomas@redhat.com>wrote:
The T520 is out. Haven't gotten my hands on one, but if it's anything like the T510, it's a freaking rocket. I just played with the configurator and came up with this for $1728 (a steal):
I have the T520 configured pretty close to as-quoted and could bring it to the May 4th meeting if you want to evaluate it, Jim.
Upgraded from a T400 a few weeks ago and I'm very pleased.
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
What are you "doing" with the laptop? I've been using an IBM T42 with 1gig ram and it's been quite fast for everything I've thrown at it. Granted, I do not game or edit stuff so those may be an issue for others. My usual mode is Puppy 5 from a CD>toram. I found that the older T series machines have had an install base of Battery packs and docking cradles etc just unbeatable for dollars saved. If you don't really need an optical drive? look at the slightly older X series IBM slimlines. For what you'd spend on a new T series hotrod, you could buy 2-3 lightly used X series machines and have hot spares/extra batteries. I'm contemplating instead of a netbook, going for one of the slightly older X series units as the price/performance ratio just works for me. If you need a high end machine? The T61 seems more than good enough and not so price painful. Oren Beck On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 5:25 AM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com> wrote:
Two red flags: last generation CPU and memory and that WiFi is almost certainly a RealTek. If you're okay with both of those, then I'd say it's a pretty good deal and you should go for it.
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 16:01, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
I found that MicroCenter has this Lenovo IdeaPad Z560 in stock in the store: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0353128
It looks like a powerful machine for the money. I am currently on an Idea pad. It's had a few little oddities, but has generally worked reliably.
The thing I like about this deal is that I can walk in to MicroCenter and walk out with a computer. And there's the support the local brick and mortar biz thing too.
Thoughts? Jim
I'm OK with the CPU. Is Realtek a problem with Linux? What's the issue there? On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com>wrote:
Two red flags: last generation CPU and memory and that WiFi is almost certainly a RealTek. If you're okay with both of those, then I'd say it's a pretty good deal and you should go for it.
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 16:01, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
I found that MicroCenter has this Lenovo IdeaPad Z560 in stock in the store: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0353128
It looks like a powerful machine for the money. I am currently on an Idea pad. It's had a few little oddities, but has generally worked reliably.
The thing I like about this deal is that I can walk in to MicroCenter and walk out with a computer. And there's the support the local brick and mortar biz thing too.
Thoughts? Jim
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com>wrote:
I was looking at a T520 and the T420. Look like pretty sweet machines. A bit more expensive than the Idea Pads and other maker's models. I suppose you get the quality you pay for. I am leaning towards the 520 despite the price. Sounds like an awesome machine. 6 lbs and 7 hours. Sweet.
Has anyone had any experience with these folks: http://www.pcsforeveryone.com
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com>wrote:
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 08:58, thomas@redhat.com <thomas@redhat.com>wrote:
The T520 is out. Haven't gotten my hands on one, but if it's anything like the T510, it's a freaking rocket. I just played with the configurator and came up with this for $1728 (a steal):
I have the T520 configured pretty close to as-quoted and could bring it to the May 4th meeting if you want to evaluate it, Jim.
Upgraded from a T400 a few weeks ago and I'm very pleased.
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
Anyone have bad things to say about ASUS? They seem to have machines with good power for a good price. I wonder how the build quality is? http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0355914 The HP look good, but they have ATI cards. I get from reading that ATI is not very Linux friendly. It works, for the most part, but can be problems. I'm sure someone has an opinion on ATI vs. Nvidia vs. Intel HD. I get the impression that Nvidia is the way to go with Linux if you can, but that the Intel just works, but how is it's 3D acceleration. I would use that for Compiz and KDEnlive previewing. Thanks, Jim On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
I'm OK with the CPU. Is Realtek a problem with Linux? What's the issue there?
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com>wrote:
Two red flags: last generation CPU and memory and that WiFi is almost certainly a RealTek. If you're okay with both of those, then I'd say it's a pretty good deal and you should go for it.
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 16:01, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
I found that MicroCenter has this Lenovo IdeaPad Z560 in stock in the store:
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0353128
It looks like a powerful machine for the money. I am currently on an Idea pad. It's had a few little oddities, but has generally worked reliably.
The thing I like about this deal is that I can walk in to MicroCenter and walk out with a computer. And there's the support the local brick and mortar biz thing too.
Thoughts? Jim
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com>wrote:
I was looking at a T520 and the T420. Look like pretty sweet machines. A bit more expensive than the Idea Pads and other maker's models. I suppose you get the quality you pay for. I am leaning towards the 520 despite the price. Sounds like an awesome machine. 6 lbs and 7 hours. Sweet.
Has anyone had any experience with these folks: http://www.pcsforeveryone.com
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com>wrote:
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 08:58, thomas@redhat.com <thomas@redhat.com>wrote:
The T520 is out. Haven't gotten my hands on one, but if it's anything like the T510, it's a freaking rocket. I just played with the configurator and came up with this for $1728 (a steal):
I have the T520 configured pretty close to as-quoted and could bring it to the May 4th meeting if you want to evaluate it, Jim.
Upgraded from a T400 a few weeks ago and I'm very pleased.
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
The more I look at it and compare, this System 76 machine actually looks pretty good. And it comes with Ubuntu 10.10. http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=113&osCsid=j80... Thoughts? Anyone had a System76 experience? On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
Anyone have bad things to say about ASUS? They seem to have machines with good power for a good price. I wonder how the build quality is?
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0355914
The HP look good, but they have ATI cards. I get from reading that ATI is not very Linux friendly. It works, for the most part, but can be problems. I'm sure someone has an opinion on ATI vs. Nvidia vs. Intel HD. I get the impression that Nvidia is the way to go with Linux if you can, but that the Intel just works, but how is it's 3D acceleration. I would use that for Compiz and KDEnlive previewing.
Thanks, Jim
On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com>wrote:
I'm OK with the CPU. Is Realtek a problem with Linux? What's the issue there?
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com>wrote:
Two red flags: last generation CPU and memory and that WiFi is almost certainly a RealTek. If you're okay with both of those, then I'd say it's a pretty good deal and you should go for it.
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 16:01, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
I found that MicroCenter has this Lenovo IdeaPad Z560 in stock in the store:
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0353128
It looks like a powerful machine for the money. I am currently on an Idea pad. It's had a few little oddities, but has generally worked reliably.
The thing I like about this deal is that I can walk in to MicroCenter and walk out with a computer. And there's the support the local brick and mortar biz thing too.
Thoughts? Jim
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com>wrote:
I was looking at a T520 and the T420. Look like pretty sweet machines. A bit more expensive than the Idea Pads and other maker's models. I suppose you get the quality you pay for. I am leaning towards the 520 despite the price. Sounds like an awesome machine. 6 lbs and 7 hours. Sweet.
Has anyone had any experience with these folks: http://www.pcsforeveryone.com
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com
wrote:
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 08:58, thomas@redhat.com <thomas@redhat.com>wrote:
> The T520 is out. Haven't gotten my hands on one, but if it's anything > like the T510, it's a freaking rocket. I just played with the > configurator and came up with this for $1728 (a steal): >
I have the T520 configured pretty close to as-quoted and could bring it to the May 4th meeting if you want to evaluate it, Jim.
Upgraded from a T400 a few weeks ago and I'm very pleased.
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
They've been nice about mailing me free Ubuntu stickers. They're on my list when I next upgrade my workstation or laptop. On Apr 21, 2011 4:48 PM, "Jim Herrmann" <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
The more I look at it and compare, this System 76 machine actually looks
pretty good. And it comes with Ubuntu 10.10.
http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=113&osCsid=j80...
Thoughts? Anyone had a System76 experience?
On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
The more I look at it and compare, this System 76 machine actually looks pretty good. And it comes with Ubuntu 10.10. http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=113&osCsid=j80...
Thoughts? Anyone had a System76 experience?
I bought one of their higher-end laptops about 4 years ago and have had a really good experience with it. It's running Ubuntu 10.10 like a champ and still as snappy as day one which I think was 6.10. I haven't needed any support on it, so I can't speak to that from my personal use perspective. That said... Late 2009, near the holiday season, the company I work for was in a pinch because we had just landed some significant new business and needed to quickly procure some laptops and workstations for new employees. Because of the holidays, Dell couldn't fulfill our order in time, but System76 could. We were wanting to experiment with a new vendor anyway and also eager to deploy desktop GNU/Linux for these new positions which were mainly using web-based logistics software. It turned out to be a pretty poor experience overall. We bought 10 or so of their laptops (which were lower end based on availability) and 15 or so small form factor workstations. I don' t know exactly how many are still in use, but it's not very many, if any. None of the laptops we deployed at our HQ are still operational. There were hard disk failures, display adapter failures, keyboard failures, you name it. The failure rate of these devices within their warranty period was much higher than any other vendor we'd used prior to that. After the first couple of RMAs they essentially gave up and started inventing reasons why the failures were our fault so they wouldn't have to honor the warranty on them. My intent isn't to bash them or distribute FUD, but just to give an idea that their niche likely isn't as a business supplier. It could be that they were overly eager to win our business and got in over their heads... Or that our expectations were too high... Or that because of the timing of the order, we got some hobbled together lower end hardware. With all that said, if you go with System76, my recommendation would be to stick to the higher end of the spectrum. Even given our bad experience at work, I'd likely consider them on my next laptop purchase.
So, you think if I buy the $1300 laptop from them, it'll be a good reliable machine, and I will have supported a Linux distributor with my purchase? That's the way I'm leaning now. It looks like a bad ass machine. It's got 4 memory slots, as opposed to most machines 2 slots. It's got Nvidia with 1.5GB VRAM. I think I'll upgrade to the 500GB hybrid drive with the 4GB SSD on board. That sounds sweet. I also like the fact that the display is a matte finish. One of the options is to have another hard drive in place of the DVD drive. That sounds like Ultra Bay technology, which would be IBM/Lenovo.
From my cart (what do you think?):
[image: Gazelle Professional]<http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?products_id=113%7B1%7D827%7B56%7D941%7B55%7D811%7B60%7D932%7B3%7D935%7B4%7D839%7B64%7D978%7B6%7D757%7B9%7D35%7B10%7D38%7B54%7D426%7B11%7D40%7B12%7D42%7B62%7D716> *Gazelle Professional*<http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?products_id=113%7B1%7D827%7B56%7D941%7B55%7D811%7B60%7D932%7B3%7D935%7B4%7D839%7B64%7D978%7B6%7D757%7B9%7D35%7B10%7D38%7B54%7D426%7B11%7D40%7B12%7D42%7B62%7D716> * - Operating System Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) 64-bit* * - Display Resolution 15.6" Full HD LED Display with Matte Finished Surface (1920 x 1080)* * - Graphics Nvidia GeForce GTX 460M Graphics with 1.5GB GDDR5 Video Memory* * - Processor 2nd Generation Intel Core i7-2630QM Processor ( 6MB L3 Cache, 2.00GHz )* * - Memory 4 GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz - 2 X 2GB* * - Hard Drive 500GB 7200rpm SATA Hybrid Hard Drive with 4GB SSD* * - Optical Drive Bay 8X DVD±R/RW/4X +DL Super-Multi Drive* * - Wireless Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module* * - Extra Battery no extra battery* * - Extra AC Adapter no extra AC adapter* * - Car AC Adapter no car AC adapter* * - Laptop Bag no bag* * - Hardware Warranty 1 Yr. Ltd. Warranty and 1 Yr. Technical Support* * - Recycle Your Old Computer no, thank you * On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 6:32 PM, Joe Holloway <jholloway7@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
The more I look at it and compare, this System 76 machine actually looks pretty good. And it comes with Ubuntu 10.10.
http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=113&osCsid=j80...
Thoughts? Anyone had a System76 experience?
I bought one of their higher-end laptops about 4 years ago and have had a really good experience with it. It's running Ubuntu 10.10 like a champ and still as snappy as day one which I think was 6.10. I haven't needed any support on it, so I can't speak to that from my personal use perspective. That said...
Late 2009, near the holiday season, the company I work for was in a pinch because we had just landed some significant new business and needed to quickly procure some laptops and workstations for new employees. Because of the holidays, Dell couldn't fulfill our order in time, but System76 could. We were wanting to experiment with a new vendor anyway and also eager to deploy desktop GNU/Linux for these new positions which were mainly using web-based logistics software.
It turned out to be a pretty poor experience overall. We bought 10 or so of their laptops (which were lower end based on availability) and 15 or so small form factor workstations. I don' t know exactly how many are still in use, but it's not very many, if any. None of the laptops we deployed at our HQ are still operational. There were hard disk failures, display adapter failures, keyboard failures, you name it. The failure rate of these devices within their warranty period was much higher than any other vendor we'd used prior to that. After the first couple of RMAs they essentially gave up and started inventing reasons why the failures were our fault so they wouldn't have to honor the warranty on them.
My intent isn't to bash them or distribute FUD, but just to give an idea that their niche likely isn't as a business supplier. It could be that they were overly eager to win our business and got in over their heads... Or that our expectations were too high... Or that because of the timing of the order, we got some hobbled together lower end hardware.
With all that said, if you go with System76, my recommendation would be to stick to the higher end of the spectrum. Even given our bad experience at work, I'd likely consider them on my next laptop purchase. _______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
Shit. None of this is easy. The ASUS looks like almost the same machine for $250 less. http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0355914 http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=113 Although the System76 has the matte finish and Li-Polymer battery. The ASUS, at that price has a 750GB drive (another $79 on the System76). However, the ASUS has Windows on it. A definite negative. :-) Sheesh. I hope this discussion is helping others consider future purchases. Peace, Jim On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
So, you think if I buy the $1300 laptop from them, it'll be a good reliable machine, and I will have supported a Linux distributor with my purchase? That's the way I'm leaning now. It looks like a bad ass machine. It's got 4 memory slots, as opposed to most machines 2 slots. It's got Nvidia with 1.5GB VRAM. I think I'll upgrade to the 500GB hybrid drive with the 4GB SSD on board. That sounds sweet. I also like the fact that the display is a matte finish. One of the options is to have another hard drive in place of the DVD drive. That sounds like Ultra Bay technology, which would be IBM/Lenovo.
From my cart (what do you think?):
[image: Gazelle Professional]<http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?products_id=113%7B1%7D827%7B56%7D941%7B55%7D811%7B60%7D932%7B3%7D935%7B4%7D839%7B64%7D978%7B6%7D757%7B9%7D35%7B10%7D38%7B54%7D426%7B11%7D40%7B12%7D42%7B62%7D716> *Gazelle Professional*<http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?products_id=113%7B1%7D827%7B56%7D941%7B55%7D811%7B60%7D932%7B3%7D935%7B4%7D839%7B64%7D978%7B6%7D757%7B9%7D35%7B10%7D38%7B54%7D426%7B11%7D40%7B12%7D42%7B62%7D716> * - Operating System Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) 64-bit* * - Display Resolution 15.6" Full HD LED Display with Matte Finished Surface (1920 x 1080)* * - Graphics Nvidia GeForce GTX 460M Graphics with 1.5GB GDDR5 Video Memory* * - Processor 2nd Generation Intel Core i7-2630QM Processor ( 6MB L3 Cache, 2.00GHz )* * - Memory 4 GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz - 2 X 2GB* * - Hard Drive 500GB 7200rpm SATA Hybrid Hard Drive with 4GB SSD* * - Optical Drive Bay 8X DVD±R/RW/4X +DL Super-Multi Drive* * - Wireless Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module* * - Extra Battery no extra battery* * - Extra AC Adapter no extra AC adapter* * - Car AC Adapter no car AC adapter* * - Laptop Bag no bag* * - Hardware Warranty 1 Yr. Ltd. Warranty and 1 Yr. Technical Support* * - Recycle Your Old Computer no, thank you
*
On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 6:32 PM, Joe Holloway <jholloway7@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
The more I look at it and compare, this System 76 machine actually looks pretty good. And it comes with Ubuntu 10.10.
http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=113&osCsid=j80...
Thoughts? Anyone had a System76 experience?
I bought one of their higher-end laptops about 4 years ago and have had a really good experience with it. It's running Ubuntu 10.10 like a champ and still as snappy as day one which I think was 6.10. I haven't needed any support on it, so I can't speak to that from my personal use perspective. That said...
Late 2009, near the holiday season, the company I work for was in a pinch because we had just landed some significant new business and needed to quickly procure some laptops and workstations for new employees. Because of the holidays, Dell couldn't fulfill our order in time, but System76 could. We were wanting to experiment with a new vendor anyway and also eager to deploy desktop GNU/Linux for these new positions which were mainly using web-based logistics software.
It turned out to be a pretty poor experience overall. We bought 10 or so of their laptops (which were lower end based on availability) and 15 or so small form factor workstations. I don' t know exactly how many are still in use, but it's not very many, if any. None of the laptops we deployed at our HQ are still operational. There were hard disk failures, display adapter failures, keyboard failures, you name it. The failure rate of these devices within their warranty period was much higher than any other vendor we'd used prior to that. After the first couple of RMAs they essentially gave up and started inventing reasons why the failures were our fault so they wouldn't have to honor the warranty on them.
My intent isn't to bash them or distribute FUD, but just to give an idea that their niche likely isn't as a business supplier. It could be that they were overly eager to win our business and got in over their heads... Or that our expectations were too high... Or that because of the timing of the order, we got some hobbled together lower end hardware.
With all that said, if you go with System76, my recommendation would be to stick to the higher end of the spectrum. Even given our bad experience at work, I'd likely consider them on my next laptop purchase. _______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
Shit. None of this is easy. The ASUS looks like almost the same machine for $250 less.
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0355914 http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=113
Although the System76 has the matte finish and Li-Polymer battery. The ASUS, at that price has a 750GB drive (another $79 on the System76). However, the ASUS has Windows on it. A definite negative. :-)
Sheesh. I hope this discussion is helping others consider future purchases.
If the Windows machine is cheaper, get the Windows machine. There's no reason to pay more for what's essentially the "no OS" option (having Linux pre-installed is a convenience). As for future purchases, if you can find a place that sells PC laptops with 16x10 displays, let me know. The only vendor I'm aware of that still offers them is Apple, hence why I only use Apple laptops (and would even were I running Windows or Linux exclusively). -- Chris
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 11:30, Christofer C. Bell < christofer.c.bell@gmail.com> wrote:
The only vendor I'm aware of that still offers them is Apple, hence why I only use Apple laptops (and would even were I running Windows or Linux exclusively).
Except that, if this is going to be a *Linux* laptop you'd be dealing with Alps pointing device, NVidia+Intel hybrid graphics and Broadcom wireless. Why put yourself through that kind of driver pain when laptops with equal design and 1st-class supported hardware are readily available for 20% less?
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com>wrote:
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 11:30, Christofer C. Bell < christofer.c.bell@gmail.com> wrote:
The only vendor I'm aware of that still offers them is Apple, hence why I only use Apple laptops (and would even were I running Windows or Linux exclusively).
Except that, if this is going to be a *Linux* laptop you'd be dealing with Alps pointing device, NVidia+Intel hybrid graphics and Broadcom wireless. Why put yourself through that kind of driver pain when laptops with equal design and 1st-class supported hardware are readily available for 20% less?
While there may or may not be better supported hardware from a driver perspective in other laptops, the design and construction of PC laptops compared to Macs is embarrassing. I can only assume the reason people continue to buy such garbage is that there are simply no alternatives available. Even Lenovo machines are awful these days (based on the selection at MicroCenter). -- Chris
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 13:46, Christofer C. Bell < christofer.c.bell@gmail.com> wrote:
While there may or may not be better supported hardware from a driver perspective in other laptops, the design and construction of PC laptops compared to Macs is embarrassing. I can only assume the reason people continue to buy such garbage is that there are simply no alternatives available. Even Lenovo machines are awful these days (based on the selection at MicroCenter).
That's just not true. If you want *form*, there's the HP Envy 14. If you want *function*, there's Lenovo ThinkPad (but not IdeaPad). Both are cheaper.
He did say based on the selection at MicroCenter, which does not carry Thinkpads. On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com>wrote:
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 13:46, Christofer C. Bell < christofer.c.bell@gmail.com> wrote:
While there may or may not be better supported hardware from a driver perspective in other laptops, the design and construction of PC laptops compared to Macs is embarrassing. I can only assume the reason people continue to buy such garbage is that there are simply no alternatives available. Even Lenovo machines are awful these days (based on the selection at MicroCenter).
That's just not true. If you want *form*, there's the HP Envy 14. If you want *function*, there's Lenovo ThinkPad (but not IdeaPad). Both are cheaper.
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On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
He did say based on the selection at MicroCenter, which does not carry Thinkpads.
I said Lenovo, which they do carry. They're in the center island display in the middle of the laptop area facing the Apple area. The Sonys are on the other side. They sometimes reverse them. There are also Lenovos on the round table ahead and to the right as you face the TVs at the back of the PC area. http://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.phtml?Ntt=Lenovo&N=0&submit... You can order one at the above link. -- Chris
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com>wrote:
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 13:46, Christofer C. Bell < christofer.c.bell@gmail.com> wrote:
While there may or may not be better supported hardware from a driver perspective in other laptops, the design and construction of PC laptops compared to Macs is embarrassing. I can only assume the reason people continue to buy such garbage is that there are simply no alternatives available. Even Lenovo machines are awful these days (based on the selection at MicroCenter).
That's just not true. If you want *form*, there's the HP Envy 14. If you want *function*, there's Lenovo ThinkPad (but not IdeaPad). Both are cheaper.
Both are 16x9 which is painful to use. I don't have to care about cost so I get to buy the best. I don't have to settle for cheap plastic garbage PC laptops because they're less expensive. Every single appeal I've seen to the worth of the PC laptop centers on cost. I do not care about cost, at all. It is absolutely not a consideration when I am buying a machine. -- Chris
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Christofer C. Bell <christofer.c.bell@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com> wrote:
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 13:46, Christofer C. Bell <christofer.c.bell@gmail.com> wrote:
While there may or may not be better supported hardware from a driver perspective in other laptops, the design and construction of PC laptops compared to Macs is embarrassing. I can only assume the reason people continue to buy such garbage is that there are simply no alternatives available. Even Lenovo machines are awful these days (based on the selection at MicroCenter).
That's just not true. If you want *form*, there's the HP Envy 14. If you want *function*, there's Lenovo ThinkPad (but not IdeaPad). Both are cheaper.
Both are 16x9 which is painful to use. I don't have to care about cost so I get to buy the best. I don't have to settle for cheap plastic garbage PC laptops because they're less expensive. Every single appeal I've seen to the worth of the PC laptop centers on cost. I do not care about cost, at all. It is absolutely not a consideration when I am buying a machine.
I am with you on the 16:9 thing. It's getting harder and harder to find even desktop displays at 16:10. Is this because manufacturers can sell more if the box says '1080' or 'HD'? Anecdotally, last year I was 'upgraded' at work to 2 x 22" 16:9 displays to replace a single 24" 16:10 display. On paper it sounded like an upgrade, but after a couple weeks it became clear that the squashed displays and extraneous horizontal real estate were causing neck strain and fairly noticeable loss in productivity. I now have a 25" primary 16:10 and a secondary, but smaller 16:10 (at both work and at home). Apologies for drifting somewhat off-topic, but I think Chris is making a good point about the importance of aspect ratio in selecting a laptop; especially if you're 'producing' content (coding, writing, etc) as opposed to merely consuming it (browsing, watching videos, etc).
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 04/22/2011 01:46 PM, Christofer C. Bell wrote:
While there may or may not be better supported hardware from a driver perspective in other laptops, the design and construction of PC laptops compared to Macs is embarrassing. I can only assume the reason people continue to buy such garbage is that there are simply no alternatives available. Even Lenovo machines are awful these days (based on the selection at MicroCenter).
Meh. I've owned the following Thinkpads over the 6 years - T42, T60, T61, X60, two X61s, T500, and T510. All of them have Just Worked(TM) with Linux (inluding accelerated graphics), and out of all of them, I've had *one* hardware issue requiring a visit by a technician. So I'm gonna have to call BS on your assertion. Thinkpads are not cheap, but you get what you pay for. - -- Thomas Cameron, RHCA, RHCSS, RHCDS, RHCVA, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT Managing Solutions Architect 512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 800-451-8679 x 8417915082 bridge http://people.redhat.com/tcameron/ IRC: choirboy / AIM: rhelguy / Yahoo: rhce_guy -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Red Hat - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2x1dUACgkQmzle50YHwaBGCQCfe9j2rkD1mLvn+xmaVF+RZHsX yekAnjb1uQ8c1QK6QER4rZ2G387Ewk56 =AURb -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
I think he's referring to the aesthetics and quality of materials. Things have gotten better recently, but the majority of non-Apple laptops out there are made of cheap plastic and have terrible keyboards and trackpads - the only well made ones I've seen were similar in price to Apple's stuff. When it comes to trackpads, I've yet to use a non-Apple trackpad that wasn't crap. I either use a trackpoint (like on my Dell) or plug in a wireless mouse. Of course, this goes back to what folks care about in a laptop. Some folks want the best stats for the least money, and others care more about the aesthetics. I usually fall in the latter category, but I suppose part of that is because I'm always somewhere where I have multiple computers, and I usually run my virtual hosts on my server. I agree with you on Intel chips though. Jeffrey. On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 2:24 PM, thomas@redhat.com <thomas@redhat.com>wrote:
Meh. I've owned the following Thinkpads over the 6 years - T42, T60, T61, X60, two X61s, T500, and T510.
All of them have Just Worked(TM) with Linux (inluding accelerated graphics), and out of all of them, I've had *one* hardware issue requiring a visit by a technician.
So I'm gonna have to call BS on your assertion. Thinkpads are not cheap, but you get what you pay for.
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:45, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
Shit. None of this is easy. The ASUS looks like almost the same machine for $250 less.
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0355914 http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=113
Although the System76 has the matte finish and Li-Polymer battery.
All laptop batteries are the same, chemically. We're still a ways off from new kinds of LiIon technologies. There's really only a handful of lithium cell makers in the world of consumer electronics. The only deviations are in their shapes.
Based on this comment, and Christofer's comment, now I'm back to the ASUS. I can get it from Micro Center, shrink the Windows partition, see how the Linux install goes, and if it doesn't go well, return it. All with no shipping hassles. Sounds like a plan. On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com>wrote:
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:45, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
Shit. None of this is easy. The ASUS looks like almost the same machine for $250 less.
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0355914 http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=113
Although the System76 has the matte finish and Li-Polymer battery.
All laptop batteries are the same, chemically. We're still a ways off from new kinds of LiIon technologies. There's really only a handful of lithium cell makers in the world of consumer electronics. The only deviations are in their shapes.
Anticipate pain with the 550M. It will work eventually but you'll likely need to run a beta release of a distro to even get working 2D support. On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 12:51, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
Based on this comment, and Christofer's comment, now I'm back to the ASUS. I can get it from Micro Center, shrink the Windows partition, see how the Linux install goes, and if it doesn't go well, return it. All with no shipping hassles. Sounds like a plan.
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com>wrote:
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:45, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
Shit. None of this is easy. The ASUS looks like almost the same machine for $250 less.
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0355914 http://www.system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=113
Although the System76 has the matte finish and Li-Polymer battery.
All laptop batteries are the same, chemically. We're still a ways off from new kinds of LiIon technologies. There's really only a handful of lithium cell makers in the world of consumer electronics. The only deviations are in their shapes.
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 04/22/2011 01:14 PM, Jason D. Clinton wrote:
Anticipate pain with the 550M. It will work eventually but you'll likely need to run a beta release of a distro to even get working 2D support.
+1 I'm going to reiterate what I said earlier, and I think what Jason alluded to as well. Go with Intel for everything you can. NIC, wireless and video all Just Work(TM). It's not sexy, but super functional. Even if you go with a lower cost laptop, don't put yourself through the hassle of screwing around with non-F/OSS drivers for those components. The money you "saved" on the front end will be decimated by the cost of lost time trying to tinker your laptop into half-assed, cobbled-together functionality. - -- Thomas Cameron, RHCA, RHCSS, RHCDS, RHCVA, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT Managing Solutions Architect 512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell http://people.redhat.com/tcameron/ IRC: choirboy / AIM: rhelguy / Yahoo: rhce_guy -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Red Hat - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2xxo8ACgkQmzle50YHwaA/RQCdEKLOTRbLjQs0H4BtY6gdGiT6 kd8AmQF7e7UKU0TWI8/zLH2yhoQOkSVR =G2TH -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
I purchased an ASUS for my sister for that very reason. Very well built, very nice machine for not much money. It's running Windows 7 though, so I can't comment on the Linux compatibility. On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
Anyone have bad things to say about ASUS? They seem to have machines with good power for a good price. I wonder how the build quality is?
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0355914
The HP look good, but they have ATI cards. I get from reading that ATI is not very Linux friendly. It works, for the most part, but can be problems. I'm sure someone has an opinion on ATI vs. Nvidia vs. Intel HD. I get the impression that Nvidia is the way to go with Linux if you can, but that the Intel just works, but how is it's 3D acceleration. I would use that for Compiz and KDEnlive previewing.
Thanks, Jim
On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com>wrote:
I'm OK with the CPU. Is Realtek a problem with Linux? What's the issue there?
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com>wrote:
Two red flags: last generation CPU and memory and that WiFi is almost certainly a RealTek. If you're okay with both of those, then I'd say it's a pretty good deal and you should go for it.
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 16:01, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
I found that MicroCenter has this Lenovo IdeaPad Z560 in stock in the store:
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0353128
It looks like a powerful machine for the money. I am currently on an Idea pad. It's had a few little oddities, but has generally worked reliably.
The thing I like about this deal is that I can walk in to MicroCenter and walk out with a computer. And there's the support the local brick and mortar biz thing too.
Thoughts? Jim
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com>wrote:
I was looking at a T520 and the T420. Look like pretty sweet machines. A bit more expensive than the Idea Pads and other maker's models. I suppose you get the quality you pay for. I am leaning towards the 520 despite the price. Sounds like an awesome machine. 6 lbs and 7 hours. Sweet.
Has anyone had any experience with these folks: http://www.pcsforeveryone.com
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Jason D. Clinton <me@jasonclinton.com
wrote:
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 08:58, thomas@redhat.com <thomas@redhat.com>wrote:
> The T520 is out. Haven't gotten my hands on one, but if it's anything > like the T510, it's a freaking rocket. I just played with the > configurator and came up with this for $1728 (a steal): >
I have the T520 configured pretty close to as-quoted and could bring it to the May 4th meeting if you want to evaluate it, Jim.
Upgraded from a T400 a few weeks ago and I'm very pleased.
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-- Nathan Cerny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone." --Bjarne Stroustrup, Danish computer scientist -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IIRC, RealTek NICs are "dumb" in that they make the host computer do a lot of the work that is done on-card on more expensive equipment. This can be a problem if you are running both network-intensive and CPU-intensive jobs, and have a slow CPU, on any OS. Amirite? On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
I'm OK with the CPU. Is Realtek a problem with Linux? What's the issue there?
RealTek WiFi is community maintained with occasional help in the form of spec and register dumps from the company. Things have improved in that the drivers are based on the shared 80211mac kernel infrastructure these days but I would be absolutely certain that the specific model is known to work and work without crashing after an hours of use, before purchasing. This in contrast to Intel which publishes their WiFi drivers and gets them upstreamed in the kernel before the silicon ever hits the market: http://intellinuxwireless.org/ On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 10:05, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
I'm OK with the CPU. Is Realtek a problem with Linux? What's the issue there?
I use HPs, but then there is the $10-$50 MS tax there. HP is not real Linux support friendly. I have an older HP and a newer dv7. I also have an older entry range Acer. All run fine under Linux and everything has always worked out of the box, except for the security thumbprint reader on my dv7. Have not tested the built-in cameras. I just wipe Windows from the machines and install Linux. My dv7 is hefty with a extended 12 cell battery (still only about 2-3 hours) and 17.3" screen and hefty video card. My recommendation is to find a laptop with a good battery life and the specs you want, and of course boycott Sony machines. HP has been good to me, but I know others how have nightmare tales. Probably applies to any manufacturer. The best laptop is the one built by a respectable company that meets your needs, and don't worry so much about the MS tax. Much as I hate it, it's a minor cost to any system you buy. You can always copy it off onto a DVD and sell it on EBay, if you're brave enough, making sure to include the Windows sticker attached to the laptop (ps I know EBay won't allow that so don't flame me about how that's impossible). Jack --- On Tue, 4/19/11, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote: From: Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> Subject: Buying a New Laptop To: kclug@kclug.org Date: Tuesday, April 19, 2011, 5:49 AM I'm buying a new laptop really soon. What do the members of KCLUG recommend for a Linux only laptop. Pre-installed or no OS is fine with me, I just don't want to pay for something I'm never going to use. I'm willing to spend in the neighborhood of a grand, give or take a few hundred. So, I want a fairly nice machine, light weight for travel, but durable and reliable. And, it goes without saying, Linux friendly. You guys are super resourceful, so I wanted to tap into the vast knowledge base on this list. Thanks in advance for your input. Jim Herrmann -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
IIRC, Dell has no-os options. -- "During his first performance of the song he received one of the highest honors you can achieve in New York’s underground rap scene: audience members touched his sneakers after a few of the more particularly tight lines." -- Cal Newport
I'd be careful buying a Dell. They use (or used) a proprietary 3 wire adapter (three wires from the transformer to the laptop, not the standard three wire grounded plug). The third wire is connected at one end to a chip which ids the cord as genuine Dell. Should that wire or the chip fail you'll have no way to recharge the laptop battery, and other problems. Probably not an issue while the laptop is in warranty. Not saying you shouldn't buy Dell, but it is something to be aware of. It is an ongoing issue with Dell. Jack --- On Tue, 4/19/11, David Nicol <davidnicol@gmail.com> wrote:
From: David Nicol <davidnicol@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Buying a New Laptop To: "Jim Herrmann" <kclug@itdepends.com> Cc: kclug@kclug.org Date: Tuesday, April 19, 2011, 10:31 AM IIRC, Dell has no-os options.
-- "During his first performance of the song he received one of the highest honors you can achieve in New York’s underground rap scene: audience members touched his sneakers after a few of the more particularly tight lines." -- Cal Newport _______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
The pin does not "identify the cord as genuine Dell". That is propagandist bullshit, but who is surprised? The pin allows the power adapter to communicate with the laptop and convey its maximum supported load. Many Dell laptops, mine included, are capable of demanding an extraordinary amount of electricity under heavy use while recharging a battery. They also have a 'speed charging' thing that draws significantly more power to allow you to recharge batteries faster. My power brick's max output is 250 watts, and I can recharge a 2.5 hr runtime battery in 15 minutes. While loading down four cores, and saturating 16GB of ram and two sata drives worth of disk IO. If I instead used a power brick that didn't have that capacity, the battery would charge slower and various buses would throttle down to accommodate the lower available power. Random power adapters could possibly fit the same hole, and supply the same voltage, but pose a fire hazard if placed under the same load. Their voltage could also sag under the load, causing increased current inside the laptop, possibly damaging it internally. Try powering your 1A cable modem off a 150ma power adapter and see what happens. The magic pin tells the laptop to draw less power by not charging the battery. It's newer, and more complicated than 'the old way'. This is a *computer* we're talking about. I have never had my pin break or bend, in 7-ish years of having Dell laptops, and at least 5 different power bricks. The Dell power connectors are also significantly larger diameter than IBMs, which makes it less likely to damage should some asshat tilt your laptop onto the power connector, or yank it sideways. You shouldn't be using some random-ass power supply to charge your laptop anyway, unless you want to break it, and in that case don't complain that something isn't working. The only bad thing I have to say about my Dell Precision M6400 is that the thumbprint reader doesn't support GNU+Linux. The one on my IBM laptop does. Dell is also not the right brand for people that think they shouldn't have to pay for physical goods. On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 13:51, Jack <quiet_celt@yahoo.com> wrote:
and other problems.
Which other problems? Specifically. </rant>
Well glad to hear it. I was only reporting what I found on Google. I only know about it as a result of a new article I read the day before about the Dell power supply. Since it's all propagandist BS, I'm sure the other related problem(s) are too. But you can google it yourself if interested (dell laptop power cord failure). I only reported what I've read and didn't take a stand one way or the other. I have nothing against Dell. I just made a statement to "be careful" to a fellow luggite searching for a new machine. Since new machines are a considerable investment it pays to do one's homework and get the best one can for the expense. Jack --- On Wed, 4/20/11, Billy Crook <billycrook@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Billy Crook <billycrook@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Buying a New Laptop To: "Kclug" <kclug@kclug.org> Cc: "Jack" <quiet_celt@yahoo.com> Date: Wednesday, April 20, 2011, 4:15 AM The pin does not "identify the cord as genuine Dell". That is propagandist bullshit, but who is surprised? The pin allows the power adapter to communicate with the laptop and convey its maximum supported load. Many Dell laptops, mine included, are capable of demanding an extraordinary amount of electricity under heavy use while recharging a battery. They also have a 'speed charging' thing that draws significantly more power to allow you to recharge batteries faster.
My power brick's max output is 250 watts, and I can recharge a 2.5 hr runtime battery in 15 minutes. While loading down four cores, and saturating 16GB of ram and two sata drives worth of disk IO.
Wow! Does it cook breakfast at the same time too?
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&l=en&cs=19 <http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&l=en&cs=19>That's the Dell Ubuntu laptops. We use Dells at work and we don't have any issues with 3rd party plugs. Even if there was a problem a replacement power brick ranges from $50-$120. We've used Dells for over 4 years and we've never had a power brick go bad. We've had users break them, but never go bad. I use Dell every day and recommend them especially since the hardware is fully supported. On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
I'm buying a new laptop really soon. What do the members of KCLUG recommend for a Linux only laptop. Pre-installed or no OS is fine with me, I just don't want to pay for something I'm never going to use. I'm willing to spend in the neighborhood of a grand, give or take a few hundred. So, I want a fairly nice machine, light weight for travel, but durable and reliable. And, it goes without saying, Linux friendly. You guys are super resourceful, so I wanted to tap into the vast knowledge base on this list.
Thanks in advance for your input.
Jim Herrmann
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
That's great that they are doing that, but their Linux laptop offerings are lame. They offer a 10" and a 13". Woah. Don't get carried away with the option there. And it's Ubuntu 9.10. Great. 18 month old release that's not even an LTS release, so it's unsupported out of the box. 1GB of RAM, can't increase it. And they wonder why no one buys them. Sheesh. I appreciate that you've had good luck with them, and I'm sure their Windoze machines are just fine. Just no point in buying a Linux laptop from them. Thanks, Jim On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:51 PM, Glenn Robuck <techravingmad@gmail.com>wrote:
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&l=en&cs=19
<http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&l=en&cs=19>That's the Dell Ubuntu laptops.
We use Dells at work and we don't have any issues with 3rd party plugs. Even if there was a problem a replacement power brick ranges from $50-$120. We've used Dells for over 4 years and we've never had a power brick go bad. We've had users break them, but never go bad.
I use Dell every day and recommend them especially since the hardware is fully supported.
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
I'm buying a new laptop really soon. What do the members of KCLUG recommend for a Linux only laptop. Pre-installed or no OS is fine with me, I just don't want to pay for something I'm never going to use. I'm willing to spend in the neighborhood of a grand, give or take a few hundred. So, I want a fairly nice machine, light weight for travel, but durable and reliable. And, it goes without saying, Linux friendly. You guys are super resourceful, so I wanted to tap into the vast knowledge base on this list.
Thanks in advance for your input.
Jim Herrmann
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
I run linux on my Latitude E6500 (and it runs just as well on the E6510) and it works out of the box. Those are well outside the $1000 budget that was first stated, but linux runs great on any and all the Dell laptops I've ever used. I only listed their ubuntu page because it's a linux offering. I know that Dell also sells "no os" or freeDOS machines too but I didn't see any laptops on their site. You could always go through the Dell outlet and buy from there and the discount would put you under or near the $1000 mark. Regardless, the Dell Latitude line work great as a linux laptop. On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
That's great that they are doing that, but their Linux laptop offerings are lame. They offer a 10" and a 13". Woah. Don't get carried away with the option there. And it's Ubuntu 9.10. Great. 18 month old release that's not even an LTS release, so it's unsupported out of the box. 1GB of RAM, can't increase it.
And they wonder why no one buys them. Sheesh.
I appreciate that you've had good luck with them, and I'm sure their Windoze machines are just fine. Just no point in buying a Linux laptop from them.
Thanks, Jim
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:51 PM, Glenn Robuck <techravingmad@gmail.com>wrote:
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&l=en&cs=19
<http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&l=en&cs=19>That's the Dell Ubuntu laptops.
We use Dells at work and we don't have any issues with 3rd party plugs. Even if there was a problem a replacement power brick ranges from $50-$120. We've used Dells for over 4 years and we've never had a power brick go bad. We've had users break them, but never go bad.
I use Dell every day and recommend them especially since the hardware is fully supported.
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com>wrote:
I'm buying a new laptop really soon. What do the members of KCLUG recommend for a Linux only laptop. Pre-installed or no OS is fine with me, I just don't want to pay for something I'm never going to use. I'm willing to spend in the neighborhood of a grand, give or take a few hundred. So, I want a fairly nice machine, light weight for travel, but durable and reliable. And, it goes without saying, Linux friendly. You guys are super resourceful, so I wanted to tap into the vast knowledge base on this list.
Thanks in advance for your input.
Jim Herrmann
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
_______________________________________________ KCLUG mailing list KCLUG@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
I'd like to add that I've used Dell's cheapy servers for years at home and have never had any problems with their Linux support. Well put together and quiet, too. I run Fedora 14 on an E6510 at work and all of my hardware worked out of the box, including the video and the built in camera. Nice laptop overall. That all said, if you want a well put together laptop, want exceptional battery life, and are willing to work a little bit harder you might look at the lower end Macbook Pros and Airs. I haven't tried to Boot Camp Linux on there, but I've heard of folks having luck. I have a 15" Macbook Pro and it's a wonderful piece of hardware - all other laptops feel like cheap crap compared to it. Jeffrey On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 9:17 PM, Glenn Robuck <techravingmad@gmail.com>wrote:
I run linux on my Latitude E6500 (and it runs just as well on the E6510) and it works out of the box.
Those are well outside the $1000 budget that was first stated, but linux runs great on any and all the Dell laptops I've ever used. I only listed their ubuntu page because it's a linux offering.
I know that Dell also sells "no os" or freeDOS machines too but I didn't see any laptops on their site. You could always go through the Dell outlet and buy from there and the discount would put you under or near the $1000 mark.
Regardless, the Dell Latitude line work great as a linux laptop.
I really appreciate all the discussion that this thread generated. It really helped me decide. So, here's what happened for me. I went to MicroCenter, and almost bought the ASUS, but they didn't have it on display for me to play with or see. They did have it in the box in back. We went through the specs one more time and it's all Realtek, and Jason's comments about that really came in to play, and I ended up walking out of the store. I decided at that time that I was going with System 76. Their machines look like they are probably Thinkpads rebranded, what with the Ultrabay option. They are about the same price as a Thinkpad, and with my purchase I'm putting my money where my mouth is in not paying for Windows when I'm not going to use it. I know that absolutely every single piece of hardware on that machine will be supported by Ubuntu, as that's what's coming with it. So, the moral value, for me, in the end made it worth going with a Linux based distributor. Again, everyone, thanks for all the input. You changed my mind. Several times. I'll give a report on the System 76 machine when I get it. Gazelle Professional * - Car AC Adapter: no car AC adapter* * - Display Resolution: 15.6" Full HD LED Display with Matte Finished Surface (1920 x 1080)* * - Extra AC Adapter: no extra AC adapter* * - Extra Battery: no extra battery* * - Graphics: Nvidia GeForce GTX 460M Graphics with 1.5GB GDDR5 Video Memory* * - Hard Drive: 500GB 7200rpm SATA Hybrid Hard Drive with 4GB SSD* * - Hardware Warranty: 1 Yr. Ltd. Warranty and 1 Yr. Technical Support* * - Laptop Bag: no bag* * - Memory: 4 GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz - 2 X 2GB* * - Operating System: Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) 64-bit* * - Optical Drive Bay: 8X DVD±R/RW/4X +DL Super-Multi Drive* * - Processor: 2nd Generation Intel Core i7-2630QM Processor ( 6MB L3 Cache, 2.00GHz )* * - Recycle Your Old Computer: no, thank you* * - Wireless: Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module* Thanks, Jim On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Jim Herrmann <kclug@itdepends.com> wrote:
I'm buying a new laptop really soon. What do the members of KCLUG recommend for a Linux only laptop. Pre-installed or no OS is fine with me, I just don't want to pay for something I'm never going to use. I'm willing to spend in the neighborhood of a grand, give or take a few hundred. So, I want a fairly nice machine, light weight for travel, but durable and reliable. And, it goes without saying, Linux friendly. You guys are super resourceful, so I wanted to tap into the vast knowledge base on this list.
Thanks in advance for your input.
Jim Herrmann
participants (13)
-
Billy Crook -
Christofer C. Bell -
David Nicol -
Glenn Robuck -
Jack -
Jason D. Clinton -
Jeffrey Watts -
Jim Herrmann -
Joe Holloway -
Jon Pruente -
Nathan Cerny -
Oren Beck -
thomas＠redhat.com