Any one here ever use any decompilers in Linux? I have a Mac OSx driver, I've been considering reverse engineering. Since the company, which shall remain nameless is the biggest jerk in regards to supporting Linux and they make certain hardware that is top notch and there's a huge clamoring for support in the community, and some guy in China just contacted for help in making a Linux driver for it. So, I'm dusting off the old peripheral and pulling out my tracers and sniffers and getting ready to restart an old driver project of mine. This is a high end device and I'd like to make sure every part of it works. I thought decompiling the Mac driver might be a good place to get some ideas, if we hit a bottleneck. I'd hate to have to develop my own decompiler. Yuck, that's a 1000 hours of work or more. I want the option to peek under the hood if we can't make this work 100%. I'd rather do as much as I can without peeking at anyone's code, but I can't even get complete specs on the chips inside the device. It's almost a total blackbox. So, any one have recommendations? Brian J.
I suggest you watch this video on this topic : http://xml.truveo.com/eb/i/2417592453/a/5f62953ab8dba73576711df5b5a4d647/p/1... Check the site: http://www.wikileaks.org/ Nothing can stop the signal.... h4ck3rm1k3
Perhaps I'm missing something, but I'm not sure Wikileaks is exactly the best place to go for someone wanting help using a decompiler... Jeffrey. On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:32 PM, jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com < jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com> wrote:
I suggest you watch this video on this topic :
Check the site: http://www.wikileaks.org/
Nothing can stop the signal....
h4ck3rm1k3
-- "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." -- Thomas Paine
I am just saying that if you have information to leak, then wikileaks is the place to do it. For example, object files to be decompiled.... The problem with decompilation of your employers code is that it is illegal, and any derived works from it are also illegal. The technical details, objdump from the gnu binutils, and the gdb would be the first tools to use in a decompilation. You would first need to build them for the chipset. mike On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Jeffrey Watts <jeffrey.w.watts@gmail.com> wrote:
Perhaps I'm missing something, but I'm not sure Wikileaks is exactly the best place to go for someone wanting help using a decompiler...
Jeffrey.
On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:32 PM, jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com <jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com> wrote:
I suggest you watch this video on this topic :
http://xml.truveo.com/eb/i/2417592453/a/5f62953ab8dba73576711df5b5a4d647/p/1...
Check the site: http://www.wikileaks.org/
Nothing can stop the signal....
h4ck3rm1k3
--
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." -- Thomas Paine
Thanks everyone for the ideas on decompiling. I now have several options to pursue, along with a commercial solution, should I need it. James, I'm not sure where you get that bit about decompiling one's employer's code being illegal. Although, it might be a breach of contract if there is some signed document that was part of the hiring process or at some later date. If, that information were disclosed, there might also be trad secret issues, but to the best of my knowledge, that would be a civil complaint. Now selling that information to competitors that's corporate espionage and is criminal. However, since, I am my employer, I'm free to do anything I want with my company's code. This however is for a product I purchased years ago and still has no Linux driver. Thanks all, Brian JD --- On Fri, 10/2/09, jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com <jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Decompilers Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 10:38 PM I am just saying that if you have information to leak, then wikileaks is the place to do it. For example, object files to be decompiled....
The problem with decompilation of your employers code is that it is illegal, and any derived works from it are also illegal.
The technical details, objdump from the gnu binutils, and the gdb would be the first tools to use in a decompilation. You would first need to build them for the chipset.
mike
On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Jeffrey Watts <jeffrey.w.watts@gmail.com> wrote:
Perhaps I'm missing something, but I'm not sure Wikileaks is exactly the best place to go for someone wanting help using a decompiler...
Jeffrey.
On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:32 PM, jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com <jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com> wrote:
I suggest you watch this video on this topic :
http://xml.truveo.com/eb/i/2417592453/a/5f62953ab8dba73576711df5b5a4d647/p/1...
Check the site: http://www.wikileaks.org/
Nothing can stop the signal....
h4ck3rm1k3
--
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." -- Thomas Paine
Let me explain myself, If you are working for some huge company then you should be careful about decompiling code.
This however is for a product I purchased years ago and still has no Linux driver. Ok, but you have a windows driver that you have the rights to decompile?
mike On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:06 AM, Jack <quiet_celt@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks everyone for the ideas on decompiling. I now have several options to pursue, along with a commercial solution, should I need it.
James, I'm not sure where you get that bit about decompiling one's employer's code being illegal. Although, it might be a breach of contract if there is some signed document that was part of the hiring process or at some later date. If, that information were disclosed, there might also be trad secret issues, but to the best of my knowledge, that would be a civil complaint. Now selling that information to competitors that's corporate espionage and is criminal.
However, since, I am my employer, I'm free to do anything I want with my company's code. This however is for a product I purchased years ago and still has no Linux driver.
Thanks all, Brian JD
--- On Fri, 10/2/09, jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com <jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Decompilers Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 10:38 PM I am just saying that if you have information to leak, then wikileaks is the place to do it. For example, object files to be decompiled....
The problem with decompilation of your employers code is that it is illegal, and any derived works from it are also illegal.
The technical details, objdump from the gnu binutils, and the gdb would be the first tools to use in a decompilation. You would first need to build them for the chipset.
mike
On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Jeffrey Watts <jeffrey.w.watts@gmail.com> wrote:
Perhaps I'm missing something, but I'm not sure Wikileaks is exactly the best place to go for someone wanting help using a decompiler...
Jeffrey.
On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:32 PM, jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com <jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com> wrote:
I suggest you watch this video on this topic :
http://xml.truveo.com/eb/i/2417592453/a/5f62953ab8dba73576711df5b5a4d647/p/1...
Check the site: http://www.wikileaks.org/
Nothing can stop the signal....
h4ck3rm1k3
--
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." -- Thomas Paine
_______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
Yes, it's called fair use. As long as I've never clicked though the agreement which limits my fair use rights. So if I decompile the software BEFORE agreeing to the license, then I'm in the clear, since I haven't agreed to the license. If I later decide, I'd like to compare my code against the Windows version and run it through some analytic tools, then I can install the software and agree to the license. Although that may open up some gray area, on whether I delay accepting an agreement in order to decompile, I think it would hold up in court since it is a fair use right, and I did not initially agree to the license. But, you never know what a court will say. However, I see no reason why I need to agree to the license and have not clicked through the license. In fact, I have never accepted any click-through license that limited my fair use rights, and never will. The Library of Congress has already spoken on the issue of decompiling software, and it is also one of the DMCA exceptions. So, the answer is a definitive yes, I have the right to decompile code that was given to me on a CD in a first sale of a piece of hardware. I am not bound by any license agreements. However, I'm not looking to decompile the Windows code, I'm looking to decompile the Mac code. Since I have never owned a Mac, it would be impossible for me to click-through and accept the license. Therefore, since I have no way to either accept or decline the license, I can't be said to have come to any kind of "meeting of the minds" agreement. Lastly, I resent to see it implied that I have no right to decompile any code that falls into my possession in a legal manner. This reeks of the kind of FUD that certain large and obnoxious companies are pushing to strip away the Constitutional protections put in place by my ancestors who raped and pillaged this once beautiful land and threw off the yoke of the British in a brazen act of high treason so they could make more money, pay less taxes and play with guns. I'm no Republican Birther or Tea-partier, but I like my rights and intend to defend and keep them! Sony can have my US Constitution when they pry it out of my cold dead fingers! Furthermore, I still don't get your point on decompiling code for a company one works for. If you worked for a company you'd likely have access to the source code, so why decompile? Again it's important to read the documents you sign when taking a position. When in doubt have a lawyer explain them to you. Not every agreement is enforceable either, there are some rights that can't be signed away, because doing so in a contract is considered onerous and null and void or in the case of giving over possession of your first-born child illegal and criminal. Hope this clarifies things for you. However, IANAL so my opinion is illegal to give. Go get your own opinion, or that of a lawyer if you are in such a need. Brian J.D, ggggg-grandson of Jonathon Youmans and Joseph Allison (Revolutionary War Patriots), and others further out in sanguinity. --- On Sun, 10/18/09, jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com <jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com> wrote:
From: jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com <jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com> Subject: Re: Decompilers To: "Jack" <quiet_celt@yahoo.com> Cc: "Kclug" <kclug@kclug.org> Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 11:49 PM Let me explain myself, If you are working for some huge company then you should be careful about decompiling code.
This however is for a product I purchased years ago and still has no Linux driver. Ok, but you have a windows driver that you have the rights to decompile?
mike
...
James, I'm not sure where you get that bit about decompiling one's employer's code being illegal. Although, it might be a breach of contract if there is some signed document that was part of the hiring process or at some later date. If, that information were disclosed, there might also be trad secret issues, but to the best of my knowledge, that would be a civil complaint. Now selling that information to competitors that's corporate espionage and is criminal.
get yourself the binutils, the best would be svn trunk and build all the architectures, and then try objdump on them. you can also try this : mipsel-linux-binutils then when you have dumped the object files into assembler, you can also try and debug them. the gdb can be build for that architecture, you can also setup a chip emulator and be able to execute parts of the code. gdb also has a dissasm. mike On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 6:12 AM, Jack <quiet_celt@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes, it's called fair use. As long as I've never clicked though the agreement which limits my fair use rights. So if I decompile the software BEFORE agreeing to the license, then I'm in the clear, since I haven't agreed to the license. If I later decide, I'd like to compare my code against the Windows version and run it through some analytic tools, then I can install the software and agree to the license. Although that may open up some gray area, on whether I delay accepting an agreement in order to decompile, I think it would hold up in court since it is a fair use right, and I did not initially agree to the license. But, you never know what a court will say. However, I see no reason why I need to agree to the license and have not clicked through the license. In fact, I have never accepted any click-through license that limited my fair use rights, and never will. The Library of Congress has already spoken on the issue of decompiling software, and it is also one of the DMCA exceptions.
So, the answer is a definitive yes, I have the right to decompile code that was given to me on a CD in a first sale of a piece of hardware. I am not bound by any license agreements.
However, I'm not looking to decompile the Windows code, I'm looking to decompile the Mac code. Since I have never owned a Mac, it would be impossible for me to click-through and accept the license. Therefore, since I have no way to either accept or decline the license, I can't be said to have come to any kind of "meeting of the minds" agreement.
Lastly, I resent to see it implied that I have no right to decompile any code that falls into my possession in a legal manner. This reeks of the kind of FUD that certain large and obnoxious companies are pushing to strip away the Constitutional protections put in place by my ancestors who raped and pillaged this once beautiful land and threw off the yoke of the British in a brazen act of high treason so they could make more money, pay less taxes and play with guns. I'm no Republican Birther or Tea-partier, but I like my rights and intend to defend and keep them! Sony can have my US Constitution when they pry it out of my cold dead fingers!
Furthermore, I still don't get your point on decompiling code for a company one works for. If you worked for a company you'd likely have access to the source code, so why decompile? Again it's important to read the documents you sign when taking a position. When in doubt have a lawyer explain them to you. Not every agreement is enforceable either, there are some rights that can't be signed away, because doing so in a contract is considered onerous and null and void or in the case of giving over possession of your first-born child illegal and criminal.
Hope this clarifies things for you. However, IANAL so my opinion is illegal to give. Go get your own opinion, or that of a lawyer if you are in such a need.
Brian J.D,
ggggg-grandson of Jonathon Youmans and Joseph Allison (Revolutionary War Patriots), and others further out in sanguinity.
--- On Sun, 10/18/09, jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com <jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com> wrote:
From: jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com <jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com> Subject: Re: Decompilers To: "Jack" <quiet_celt@yahoo.com> Cc: "Kclug" <kclug@kclug.org> Date: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 11:49 PM Let me explain myself, If you are working for some huge company then you should be careful about decompiling code.
This however is for a product I purchased years ago and still has no Linux driver. Ok, but you have a windows driver that you have the rights to decompile?
mike
...
James, I'm not sure where you get that bit about decompiling one's employer's code being illegal. Although, it might be a breach of contract if there is some signed document that was part of the hiring process or at some later date. If, that information were disclosed, there might also be trad secret issues, but to the best of my knowledge, that would be a civil complaint. Now selling that information to competitors that's corporate espionage and is criminal.
On Sunday 18 October 2009 08:06:15 pm Jack wrote:
James, I'm not sure where you get that bit about decompiling one's employer's code being illegal. Although, it might be a breach of contract if there is some signed document that was part of the hiring process or at some later date. If, that information were disclosed, there might also be trad secret issues, but to the best of my knowledge, that would be a civil complaint. Now selling that information to competitors that's corporate espionage and is criminal.
What I don't get is why people assume only criminal infringements are illegal. Violations of any law are illegal, whether they result in criminal charges or civil.
Maybe because some infringements are illegal only because of uninformed judges making very bad decisions, and the resultant damage to society at large? Or maybe some things are illegal only under certain conditions, and not always illegal? Or maybe some things are illegal only in certain countries, and not globally illegal? Or maybe because in a civil court, what might appear to be illegal can be judged as not so? Or maybe because the line between civil illegal activity is not as clear-cut as criminal illegal? Or maybe because, none of the activities I mentioned in my original or follow up posts constituted anything illegal, civil or criminal, on my part, and I take great exception to FUD and implied illegal activity on my part, being broadcast for the world in a User Group post, to which my good reputation may suffer for decades following? Maybe, I just don't like being smeared, by faceless trolls? I take great pride in my totally legal behavior. Not to mention, a good bit of extreme patriotism. And my God given right to hack anything I own. Brian JD --- On Wed, 10/21/09, Luke-Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
From: Luke-Jr <luke@dashjr.org> Subject: Re: Decompilers To: kclug@kclug.org Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 10:04 PM On Sunday 18 October 2009 08:06:15 pm Jack wrote:
James, I'm not sure where you get that bit about decompiling one's employer's code being illegal. Although, it might be a breach of contract if there is some signed document that was part of the hiring process or at some later date. If, that information were disclosed, there might also be trad secret issues, but to the best of my knowledge, that would be a civil complaint. Now selling that information to competitors that's corporate espionage and is criminal.
What I don't get is why people assume only criminal infringements are illegal. Violations of any law are illegal, whether they result in criminal charges or civil.
On Thursday 29 October 2009 11:28:58 pm Jack wrote:
Or maybe because, none of the activities I mentioned in my original or follow up posts constituted anything illegal, civil or criminal, on my part, and I take great exception to FUD and implied illegal activity on my part, being broadcast for the world in a User Group post, to which my good reputation may suffer for decades following? Maybe, I just don't like being smeared, by faceless trolls? I take great pride in my totally legal behavior.
Your assumed implications are your own. I meant nothing more than what I said,
On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 5:38 PM, Luke-Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
Your assumed implications are your own. I meant nothing more than what I said,
But what you said isn't correct. There's no such thing as "civil charges" -- there are "civil disputes" or "civil trials" in which a judge is asked to determine if someone wronged someone else by causing (and this is a legal term) "harm" to another party. This doesn't necessarily mean that anything illegal took place. If your dog keeps pooping in my yard, there's nothing illegal about that. However, I can sue you in civil court because you have caused "harm" to me (allowing your dog to pollute my property). Civil trials are used to determine "who was injured" (another legal term) and to asses compensation (yet another legal term), not to determine if any laws were broken. No one goes to jail or gets a criminal record for losing a civil dispute. You can read all about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_trial -- Chris
On Sunday 01 November 2009 10:03:58 pm Christofer C. Bell wrote:
If your dog keeps pooping in my yard, there's nothing illegal about that.
If there's a law against it, it's illegal.
However, I can sue you in civil court because you have caused "harm" to me
If there isn't a law against it, you have no basis for suing.
(allowing your dog to pollute my property).
Fertiliser isn't pollution! :p
Civil trials are used to determine "who was injured" (another legal term) and to asses compensation (yet another legal term), not to determine if any laws were broken. No one goes to jail or gets a criminal record for losing a civil dispute.
If no laws were broken, you cannot establish culpability for non-criminal injury. If you get hurt because I do something legal, I have no obligation to compensate you for it.
Luke, please think through things before you post. It's really easy to create scenarios to disprove your statements. 1) Walking down the street on the sidewalk isn't a crime. 2) While walking down the street on the sidewalk, Bob trips over his feet (because he's clumsy or whatever) and falls on Mary, breaking her nose. This is an accident, and thus is not illegal as there are exceptions in the Battery law for situations like this. 3) Bob feels he shouldn't pay all of Mary's medical bills. He thinks: "hey, I was hurt too - I bruised my elbow while smashing it into her face. I should only have to pay half of her bills." Bob is not doing anything illegal, he's just being a douchebag. 4) Mary takes Bob to civil court to recoup her losses. Mary wins. Here's another example: 1) Fred and Ginger are married. 2) Turns out they hate each other and want a divorce. 3) Ginger feels that Fred is a crappy father, doesn't do anything around the house, and doesn't deserve the kids or their money. She takes his ass to court. 4) Now, being a lazy, good for nothing a-hole isn't illegal, but it won't make you look good in divorce court. 5) Ginger goes before the judge and plays that violin like a pro. Fred is screwed (and gets screwed until the kids are 18 and Ginger finally marries that man-ho she's been shacking up with while collecting alimony). See? Pretty simple. I don't know why you always argue these kinds of things Luke. I'm sure a real lawyer could explain it much better, but I'll settle for giving examples that disprove your blanket statements. The reality is, however, that people like us don't know the law and probably ought to leave it to people with a JD. I think you could have handled it better by saying "I'm sorry Jack, I don't really know what I'm talking about. I didn't mean any offense". Jeffrey. On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Luke-Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
If no laws were broken, you cannot establish culpability for non-criminal injury. If you get hurt because I do something legal, I have no obligation to compensate you for it.
-- "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." -- Thomas Paine
On Mon, Nov 02, 2009 at 01:29:57AM -0600, Jeffrey Watts wrote:
settle for giving examples that disprove your blanket statements. The reality is, however, that people like us don't know the law and probably ought to leave it to people with a JD.
Yes, the law is now so complex and difficult to understand that I can no longer even hope to comply with it unless I consult an attorney before I undertake any significant action otherwise only prosecutorial discretion is the only thing standing between myself and judgement. I fear for the future when everyone will inadvertently commit three felonies daily. Thanks, -- Hal Duston hald@kc.rr.com
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Hal Duston <hald@kc.rr.com> wrote:
I fear for the future when everyone will inadvertently commit three felonies daily. I think that is the entire idea, you have no rights, you are only free because the man does not want to prosecute you : you live by the mercy of the man.
This is why the copyright is being used to censor you, only when they dont like what you say does copyright violations come into play. mike
Well, since there is a Federal law that says it is illegal to possess, transport, sell or buy any plant, fish, or animal in violation of any Federal state or local law, or of any international treaty. I'd say pretty much all Americans are possible criminals. I didn't quote the actual law in the order it is written, but it says all that. Since Brahman cattle are protected in India, and it is illegal to kill them, IIRC, that might make beef illegal in India. Now whether that makes all beef illegal or only Brahman beef illegal I don't know, but can any of us prove our beef is in 100% compliance with Federal law that we aren't eating beef that is illegal in India with whom we have an international treaty? Also, could there be some plant or animal or fish protected by law in some foreign country and not in the US, and is bred or grown and sold in this country? There are over 10,000 Federal laws, can any one recite them all? Did you know, it's against the law to serve pickles and cheese on the same plate in NYC. Most any McDonald's cheeseburger is breaking the law in NYC. Not to mention since, selling a cheeseburger with a pickle slice is against NYC law, the above mentioned Federal law also kicks in (for the pickle - a plant part and the cheese an animal product and possibly the hamburger they are served with, not to mention the bun, etc). Making it a Federal crime to buy a cheeseburger with a pickle in NYC! With possibly 6 or more counts for each plant or animal product involved (pickle, cheese, beef, wheat, ketchup, mustard, sugar)! True, it's an old law and not enforced, or probably even widely known (think WWII food rationing laws never repealed). Still, it's the law, and being broken millions of times a day, by New Yorkers and tourists of all ages. Food for thought, Brian JD --- On Mon, 11/2/09, Hal Duston <hald@kc.rr.com> wrote:
From: Hal Duston <hald@kc.rr.com> Subject: OT: Law [Was: Decompilers] To: "KCLUG" <kclug@kclug.org> Date: Monday, November 2, 2009, 5:53 AM On Mon, Nov 02, 2009 at 01:29:57AM -0600, Jeffrey Watts wrote:
settle for giving examples that disprove your blanket statements. The reality is, however, that people like us don't know the law and probably ought to leave it to people with a JD.
Yes, the law is now so complex and difficult to understand that I can no longer even hope to comply with it unless I consult an attorney before I undertake any significant action otherwise only prosecutorial discretion is the only thing standing between myself and judgement. I fear for the future when everyone will inadvertently commit three felonies daily.
Thanks, -- Hal Duston hald@kc.rr.com _______________________________________________ Kclug mailing list Kclug@kclug.org http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Jack <quiet_celt@yahoo.com> wrote:
True, it's an old law and not enforced, or probably even widely known (think WWII food rationing laws never repealed). Still, it's the law, and being broken millions of times a day, by New Yorkers and tourists of all ages.
Food for thought,
There are many websites out there that offer hours of entertainment outlining really dumb laws that are still on the books. Here's one of the biggest: http://www.dumblaws.com/ -- Chris
participants (6)
-
Christofer C. Bell -
Hal Duston -
Jack -
jamesmikedupont＠googlemail.com -
Jeffrey Watts -
Luke-Jr