I think we should start discussing what will be brought to the ITEC booth. For example, I'm bringing a PIII-600Mhz 256MB RAM system designed around home and home office use. It is running Debian Etch (testing), with OpenOffice.org 2.0, the Gnome desktop, sound, video playback, and a bunch of other things to delight young and old. I am only bringing the one system as I do not have a LCD monitor. I was thinking of bringing a sign listing all of the known Linux viruses (anywhere from 14 to 40 depending on where you look; Wikipedia only lists 14). Is 11" x 17" too big? In addition to Live CDs, shall we (I) do up T-shirt transfers or other giveaway items to entice people into the booth? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
If your going to bring a list of "Linux Viruses" you should also bring a list for windows, even if you have to print it in 1pt font (yes, I know it would be illegible) for comparison sake. On 9/27/06, Leo Mauler <webgiant@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think we should start discussing what will be brought to the ITEC booth.
For example, I'm bringing a PIII-600Mhz 256MB RAM system designed around home and home office use. It is running Debian Etch (testing), with OpenOffice.org 2.0, the Gnome desktop, sound, video playback, and a bunch of other things to delight young and old. I am only bringing the one system as I do not have a LCD monitor.
I was thinking of bringing a sign listing all of the known Linux viruses (anywhere from 14 to 40 depending on where you look; Wikipedia only lists 14). Is 11" x 17" too big?
In addition to Live CDs, shall we (I) do up T-shirt transfers or other giveaway items to entice people into the booth?
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I am reluctant to bring a sign showing all the Windows viruses for two reasons: First, I have heard comments that Linux users should be able to justify Linux to people without bashing Microsoft. And second, because we wouldn't have the room to fit anything else in the booth if I brought a list of Windows viruses. :-P Seriously, I'm probably going to bring along a comparison poster which is slightly longer than the Linux virus poster and uses a much smaller but readable font. At this point I'm still trying to decide on the graphic logo to use for the poster, as the Windows graphic is a trademark. It will probably be legal size poster for Linux viruses and tabloid size for Windows viruses. At that difference in size perhaps the same size font will contrast the two better. --- crash3m <crash3m@gmail.com> wrote:
If your going to bring a list of "Linux Viruses" you should also bring a list for windows, even if you have to print it in 1pt font (yes, I know it would be illegible) for comparison sake.
On 9/27/06, Leo Mauler <webgiant@yahoo.com> wrote:
I was thinking of bringing a sign listing all of the known Linux viruses (anywhere from 14 to 40 depending on where you look; Wikipedia only lists 14). Is 11" x 17" too big?
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On Saturday 30 September 2006 02:45, Leo Mauler wrote:
Seriously, I'm probably going to bring along a comparison poster which is slightly longer than the Linux virus poster and uses a much smaller but readable font.
Be sure to remember that most Linux-based OS have a package manager. Even if many of them use pretty crappy packages (RPM), this is still more than Windows has ever had other than a "uninstall list" and more recently MSI (which is not in common use).
At this point I'm still trying to decide on the graphic logo to use for the poster, as the Windows graphic is a trademark.
Fair use. I'm pretty sure that Microsoft *cannot* prevent usage of their trademarks for criticism.
On 9/30/06, Luke-Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
Fair use. I'm pretty sure that Microsoft *cannot* prevent usage of their trademarks for criticism.
Read http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/gallery/logoguidelines.mspx and http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/trademarks/usage/default.mspx and decide. I'm in a hurry to get to work (night job) or I'd do the reading myself.
On 9/30/06, Jon Pruente <jdpruente@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/30/06, Luke-Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
Fair use. I'm pretty sure that Microsoft *cannot* prevent usage of their trademarks for criticism.
Read http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/gallery/logoguidelines.mspx and http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/trademarks/usage/default.mspx and decide. I'm in a hurry to get to work (night job) or I'd do the reading myself.
Well, I tooka quick spin thought the site anyway and found http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/intellectualproperty/trademarks/usage/d...
On Saturday 30 September 2006 21:55, Jon Pruente wrote:
On 9/30/06, Luke-Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
Fair use. I'm pretty sure that Microsoft *cannot* prevent usage of their trademarks for criticism.
Read http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/gallery/logoguidelines.mspx and http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/trademarks/usage/default.mspx and decide. I'm in a hurry to get to work (night job) or I'd do the reading myself.
I was referring to trademark law in general. I don't think Microsoft can prevent usage of their trademarks for criticism.
Speaking ex cathedra as a Linux evangelist... We need to avoid going after Windows too much I hate MS as much as the next guy,(http://home.kc.rr.com/mharder/surv.jpg) and will engage in discussions of its weaknesses from time to time, but we don't need to do much of that. Everyone who uses a Microsoft computer knows what a pain it can be. We don't win any friends by telling them that MS sux. We win them by showing them what Linux can do for them. That's one of the reasons I wanted to see if my laptop could handle compiz eye candy. For the people who think Linux isn't ready for the desktop, we can show them that it is. The closest thing to MS-bashing we should do is to show them that they can take older hardware that has no PRAYER of running Vista, and get a nice, usable Linux desktop, complete with Open Office, Firefox, Thunderbird, GIMP, and other fine tools that can make them productive without having to pay more for hardware that can run the expensive software. . . . Speaking of iron-on transfers. This is the graphic I use for mine: http://home.kc.rr.com/mharder/tux14.jpg It's a POV-Ray rendered graphic rather than just the branding iron stuck onto the canonical Tux. Somewhere on an old hard drive, I think I have the source for that, even.
This is why I was so interested in getting a PIII-600Mhz to run OpenOffice.org 2.0. I installed Debian Etch using the netinst CD. I asked around on another forum I'm on and got the following list of things a Linux system should do to get the average user interested: web browsing instant messaging Email Video and multimedia Also, has anyone looked into the GIMPShop? I understand it is a little easier for PhotoShop users to get the hang of the GIMP by using GIMPShop. http://www.gimpshop.net/ --- "Monty J. Harder" <mjharder@gmail.com> wrote:
The closest thing to MS-bashing we should do is to show them that they can take older hardware that has no PRAYER of running Vista, and get a nice, usable Linux desktop, complete with Open Office, Firefox, Thunderbird, GIMP, and other fine tools that can make them productive without having to pay more for hardware that can run the expensive software.
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I would agree with Leo for the most part. I work in onsite computer service so I'm working with the "general public" on their home systems mostly. Kids are using computers to chat, email, send pictures, watch videos / DVD's, and mp3's. Parents are using their machines for email, pictures, and general net surfing. Parents like the thought of having MS Office on the machine and will go and spend $299+ on geting MS Office just so they can have MS Word, mainly because they simply don't know any better. Every once in a while I run into someone who actually uses Excel though they don't know much about it so the spreadsheets are simplistic. A good 75% of my calls deal with virus / adware / spyware issues that are slowing the machine down to a crawl. Most machines that I work on are P-4 Dell's. Sometimes I think the biggest hurdle Linux has is convincing people that good (great) software CAN BE FREE or low cost. They have this stigma that if it's free, it's probably junk and would rather pay a fantastic amount of money for MS Office because it makes them feel better. I'm sure there are other angles here. Just my 2-cents. On 10/2/06, Leo Mauler <webgiant@yahoo.com> wrote:
This is why I was so interested in getting a PIII-600Mhz to run OpenOffice.org 2.0. I installed Debian Etch using the netinst CD.
I asked around on another forum I'm on and got the following list of things a Linux system should do to get the average user interested:
web browsing instant messaging Email Video and multimedia
Also, has anyone looked into the GIMPShop? I understand it is a little easier for PhotoShop users to get the hang of the GIMP by using GIMPShop.
--- "Monty J. Harder" <mjharder@gmail.com> wrote:
The closest thing to MS-bashing we should do is to show them that they can take older hardware that has no PRAYER of running Vista, and get a nice, usable Linux desktop, complete with Open Office, Firefox, Thunderbird, GIMP, and other fine tools that can make them productive without having to pay more for hardware that can run the expensive software.
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On Monday 02 October 2006 11:03, RtX wrote:
A good 75% of my calls deal with virus / adware / spyware issues that are slowing the machine down to a crawl. Most machines that I work on are P-4 Dell's.
Sometimes I think the biggest hurdle Linux has is convincing people that good (great) software CAN BE FREE or low cost. They have this stigma that if it's free, it's probably junk and would rather pay a fantastic amount of money for MS Office because it makes them feel better.
I'm sure there are other angles here. Just my 2-cents.
I think that the spyware and virus angle is a good one but it's not the whole enchilada. I can think of three "WOW" factors that would really impress: 1) Both the GNOME and KDE desktops now automatically mount removable drives and show them on the desktop. It would be nice to have a USB pen drive that can be attached to a system, detached and then inserted in to a Windows system to demonstrate that NTFS and FAT32 support is stable and interoperable. 2) Both network-manager-gnome and knetworkmanager are stable enough to be used in production. It would be neat to show people browsing wireless networks with a tray applet and then connecting to one with WPA encryption. 3) Compiz and XOrg 7.1 just entered Debian. They are also available on Ubuntu Edgy. It would be incredibly awesome to demonstrate this functionality in advance of Vista coming out. This is the long-term "eye candy" solution. The following video cards are supported, currently: * All Intel cards 900 and higher with open source drivers * All NVidia cards GeForce and higher with the 9xxx beta drivers. * All Radeons except the 200M with open source drivers (must use XAA) -- Jason D. Clinton Something clever goes on this line.
--- RtX <riverty@gmail.com> wrote:
Sometimes I think the biggest hurdle Linux has is convincing people that good (great) software CAN BE FREE or low cost. They have this stigma that if it's free, it's probably junk and would rather pay a fantastic amount of money for MS Office because it makes them feel better.
This problem isn't helped by those "99 cent software" remainder boxes in various stores. For just 99 cents you can get a software application written for Windows98 (or a formerly shareware application written for WindowsXP) which is total crap compared to something worth $39.95 or more. One 99 cent CD purchase and your average person will decide that cheap equals junk, and that free must be even worse. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
I've been poking around for a comprehensive list of Linux viruses. Wikipedia has a list of 14 Linux viruses. http://tinyurl.com/fah2v If you search the Kaspersky Labs virus database, keyword "linux", you come up with about 1110 entries. http://tinyurl.com/o9s8a However, it appears that Kaspersky Labs considers many programs to be Linux viruses when in fact they are either trojans (requiring the user to run the program and are non-self-replicating), or exploits of outdated network daemons. http://tinyurl.com/g5aoo Obviously many trojans and malware found in Windows exploit bugs in Windows, especially Outlook, which allow the program to execute itself. Such a situation doesn't exist in Linux, as the user must be social engineered into running the program himself. So what would be a fair list of Linux viruses? Only programs which fit the definition of "virus"? Wikipedia contains this definition of "computer virus": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_virus "A computer virus is a self-replicating computer program written to alter the way a computer operates, without the permission or knowledge of the user. Though the term is commonly used to refer to a range of malware, a true virus must replicate itself, and must execute itself." Using that definition there are only 14 Linux viruses. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
In a humorous aside, there has been an attempt to run Windows viruses in Linux using WINE. NewsForge Running Windows viruses with Wine Wednesday January 26, 2005 (06:12 PM GMT) http://tinyurl.com/67pp6 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Should a poster listing Linux viruses have anything more on it than a list of the Viruses? The information on each virus varies from virus to virus, so it would be a little difficult to come up with common categories. For example, "Bliss" is not found in the wild, but "Staog" was found in the wild in 1996. The trouble is that the vulnerabilities exploited by "Staog" were quickly patched, so "Staog" has not been seen in the wild since 1996. Security patches have resulted in a lot of these viruses no longer being able to infect modern Linux systems. There are some interesting bits of trivia as well. "Slapper" creates a P2P network of infected computers; "Cheese" causes problems itself, but it fixes some of the problems that the "Ramen" virus causes; and "Mighty" is a virus with a built-in IRC client, and uses IRC to spread itself around. So what, if anything, should go on the poster in addition to the listed Linux viruses? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Leo Mauler wrote:
Should a poster listing Linux viruses have anything more on it than a list of the Viruses? The information on each virus varies from virus to virus, so it would be a little difficult to come up with common categories.
For example, "Bliss" is not found in the wild, but "Staog" was found in the wild in 1996. The trouble is that the vulnerabilities exploited by "Staog" were quickly patched, so "Staog" has not been seen in the wild since 1996. Security patches have resulted in a lot of these viruses no longer being able to infect modern Linux systems.
There are some interesting bits of trivia as well. "Slapper" creates a P2P network of infected computers; "Cheese" causes problems itself, but it fixes some of the problems that the "Ramen" virus causes; and "Mighty" is a virus with a built-in IRC client, and uses IRC to spread itself around.
So what, if anything, should go on the poster in addition to the listed Linux viruses?
I think the virus thing should be dropped and we only have a positive message. Too much mud slinging this time of year. :-)
participants (8)
-
Chris Bier -
crash3m -
Jason D. Clinton -
Jon Pruente -
Leo Mauler -
Luke-Jr -
Monty J. Harder -
RtX