Re: win95/98/ME and printers. An ethics issue comparable to DRM servers or not?
--- On Sun, 8/3/08, Billy Crook <billycrook@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 15:40, Leo Mauler <webgiant@yahoo.com> wrote:
Chris, I don't think you get what I'm saying. There's a difference between what you are saying, maintenance, and what I was saying, which is "don't deny access to existing already-created drivers."
YOU DO NOT GET TO TELL HP HOW TO RUN THEIR BUSINESS. PERIOD. GET OVER YOUR SELF. HP DOES NOT AND IS NOT OBLIGATED TO CARE ABOUT YOU.
So when you pay money to an organization for a service, they aren't obligated to provide that service to you? Sounds vaguely communistic.
..blah...blah... What HP is doing isn't refusing to maintain their printers, it is actively choosing not to provide, even on an "as-is, don't expect support" fashion, *existing* drivers.
What makes you think they were ever obligated to provide them in the first place?
Because I paid them money for their product? Again, this attitude of yours that people should be allowed to steal money from other people and provide them with nothing in return sounds vaguely communist.
Drivers which require no work to create, because they were already here. Drivers which require no work to distribute, because they were already available on the HP website.
They cost money in bandwidth, server upkeep, and feilding support calls from idiots running Windows 95 who don't know what postscript is, and call HP to fix their printer or ask for a new one.
The first two are valid points, but you need to look up all the big words in the phrase "an 'as-is, don't expect support' fashion" which confuse you into thinking that I'm saying HP should provide technical support for the existing drivers.
They've just (metaphorically speaking) tracked down and *destroyed* every CD and floppy collection of Slackware 7.1 (current as of 1998).
They have in ABSOLUTELY NO WAY, NOT EVEN METAPHORICALLY tracked down and destroyed a damn thing. Put your pants back on.
So when they were deleting all the copies of their Windows 98 drivers, they weren't deleting all the copies of their Windows 98 drivers? How Zen!
I have a very old Pentium I laptop still running that same "10-year-old OS", namely Slackware 7.1. The laptop won't run anything better as it only has a floppy drive and no CD drive (not even a USB port). What the laptop does do is manage all my recipes in my kitchen, and allows me to write essays or thoughts, or play simple games, while the bread is rising or the water is getting ready to boil. An old wired Ethernet card does a nice job of connecting me to the basement server and very basic Internet connectivity. Fact is that I wouldn't want to risk a $1000+ laptop right next to the stove, and don't have the space for a bulky tower case and monitor.
Throw it away. It is garbage. Buy a PDA you tool.
A $300 PDA next to a stove all the time? I'm not made of money, though if part of your financial income comes from "people giving you money and getting nothing in return" that you think is just fine in the marketplace, you must have a dozen throwaway PDAs lying around.
Sometimes older is a *better choice* than newer.
There's an old saying that people will believe anything when their sense of self worth depends on it.
Exactly, I couldn't agree more about your own attitudes.
Take a step back, and think what you reveal about yourself, before saying anything more.
Let's see. I've revealed that I don't put useful technology in a landfill just because its not the "latest and greatest." Methinks you should have taken your own advice before making this message.
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 17:59, Leo Mauler <webgiant@yahoo.com> wrote:
So when you pay money to an organization for a service, they aren't obligated to provide that service to you?
Exactly what SERVICE are you paying HP for. Last I checked, a printer was a good, not a service
Sounds vaguely communistic.
That's it, invoke communism. That's sure to back your argument, whatever it was.
What makes you think they were ever obligated to provide them in the first place? Because I paid them money for their product? Again, this attitude of yours that people should be allowed to steal money from other people and provide them with nothing in return sounds vaguely communist.
The pronoun 'them' refers to the drivers you think you're entitled to download. You are wrong. You paid for the printer and the drivers _on_a_cd_. If you lost them, or allowed the cd to become destroyed, that is entirely your fault, and not HP's. For nearly ten years, HP has provided additional copies of said drivers electronically to careless owners like yourself, under no obligation to do so, and without you paying for it.
The first two are valid points
As is nearly everything else I told you off list because it's not relevant to the KCLUG
but you need to look up all the big words in the phrase "an 'as-is, don't expect support' fashion" which confuse you into thinking that I'm saying HP should provide technical support for the existing drivers.
Doesn't matter. If HP provides them on any basis; If they provide them at all, some percentage of the populace will call in and eat up support time. At least the amount of time it takes someone from HP to tell them to go away.
How Zen!
How clueless.
A $300 PDA next to a stove all the time? I'm not made of money, <blah> you must have a dozen throwaway PDAs lying around.
So you know, most people keep a PDA in their pocket. I actually have one I haven't used in a while. I will give it to you at the next LUG meeting if you publicly concede you are wrong, and stop polluting the mailing list with garbage that neither pertains to Kansas City nor GNU/Linux. I paid $500 for it at the time, and it was worth it. It's probably faster than your laptop. Here's a link so you can see what it looks like, and decide: http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=peg-nx...
On Tuesday 05 August 2008, Billy Crook wrote:
So you know, most people keep a PDA in their pocket. I actually have one I haven't used in a while. I will give it to you at the next LUG meeting if you publicly concede you are wrong, and stop polluting the mailing list with garbage that neither pertains to Kansas City nor GNU/Linux. I paid $500 for it at the time, and it was worth it. It's probably faster than your laptop. Here's a link so you can see what it looks like, and decide: http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=peg-n x70v%2Fu&category0=
Bribes to end the topic? I want one too!
participants (3)
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Billy Crook -
Leo Mauler -
Luke -Jr