On Wednesday 12 March 2008, James Sissel wrote:Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I
> Luke -Jr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
> Matt 16:18, Our Lord appoints St. Peter to be the first pope and promises
> that that Satan will never at any time prevail over the Church.
>
will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail18 "Thou art Peter"... As St. Peter, by divine revelation, here made a solemn
against it.
> Funny, I don't see the word Pope in there, nor Catholic.
profession of his faith of the divinity of Christ; so in recompense of this
faith and profession, our Lord here declares to him the dignity to which he
is pleased to raise him: viz., that he to whom he had already given the name
of Peter, signifying a rock, St. John 1. 42, should be a rock indeed, of
invincible strength, for the support of the building of the church; in which
building he should be, next to Christ himself, the chief foundation stone, in
quality of chief pastor, ruler, and governor; and should have accordingly all
fulness of ecclesiastical power, signified by the keys of the kingdom of
heaven.
18 "Upon this rock"... The words of Christ to Peter, spoken in the vulgar
language of the Jews which our Lord made use of, were the same as if he had
said in English, Thou art a Rock, and upon this rock I will build my church.
So that, by the plain course of the words, Peter is here declared to be the
rock, upon which the church was to be built: Christ himself being both the
principal foundation and founder of the same. Where also note, that Christ,
by building his house, that is, his church, upon a rock, has thereby secured
it against all storms and floods, like the wise builder, St. Matt. 7. 24, 25.
18 "The gates of hell"... That is, the powers of darkness, and whatever Satan
can do, either by himself, or his agents. For as the church is here likened
to a house, or fortress, built on a rock; so the adverse powers are likened
to a contrary house or fortress, the gates of which, that is, the whole
strength, and all the efforts it can make, will never be able to prevail over
the city or church of Christ. By this promise we are fully assured, that
neither idolatry, heresy, nor any pernicious error whatsoever shall at any
time prevail over the church of Christ.
There are many well documented and witnessed exorcisms, and in some cases of
> Mark 16:15, Christ gives the Church a mandate to teach the world, and makes
> mention of signs to identify His Church (for example, only
> Catholics can cast our demons)
>
> Really? Only Catholics can do that? Or maybe a better question should
> be "Can Catholics really do that?" What proof do you have that *anybody*
> can or can't do that? Or for that matter, what proof do you have demons
> even exist?
demonic possession the possessed person has demonstrated supernatural
abilities.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12315a.htm
My description is of what occured, not the literal text.
> >Acts 2, Christ sends the Holy Ghost to the apostles, making them the
> > Church's first Bishops.
>
> Bishops? I don't recall seeing that word.
You can obviously look up the literal text yourself.
Right, so when St. Peter in the middle of a lot of disputing interrupts and
> >Acts 15:1, The first council (the Council of Jerusalem) addresses the
> > first heresy (Judaizers), and eventually St. Peter uses his papal
> > authority, accepted by all present, to give a final resolution.
>
> Papal authority? Where does it say that? Or where does it say he's
> actually got *any* "authority"?
proclaims a decision, and nobody questions him... they all just got tired of
arguing, or what? Clearly, the only way the described event was even possible
was that all present recognized that St. Peter was not to be questioned upon
coming to a conclusion.
"The Church of God which sojourns in Rome to the Church of God which sojourns
> None of the claims of papal primacy, infallibility, pre-eminence,
> jurisdiction, etc. have any reliable foundation in the New Testament. Nor
> were they assumed to be the right of the Roman bishop in the first
> centuries of the Church. They are later inventions.
>
> http://jmgainor.homestead.com/files/PU/Scr/mt16.htm
in Corinth....If anyone disobey the things which have been said by Him
through us, let them know that they will involve themselves in transgression
and in no small danger." Pope Clement of Rome [regn. c A.D.91-101], 1st
Epistle to the Corinthians, 1,59:1 (c. A.D. 96).
Christ Himself provided this proof:
> Besides, all of this is from the New Testiment. Ask the Jews what they
> think of the New Testiment. So unless you have actual proof from God
> himself all of this is man's faith in what he believes.
Matt 12:24-26 "But the Pharisees hearing it, said: This man casteth not out
the devils but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. And Jesus
knowing their thoughts, said to them: Every kingdom divided
against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house
divided against itself shall not stand. And if Satan cast out
Satan, he is divided against himself: how then shall his
kingdom stand?"
Nothing "makes" things right or wrong. They just *are* right or wrong.
> So what makes what you believe right and what I believe wrong?
Only the Catholic Church has supernatural proof of its legitimacy.
Since truth never changes, it follows that any religion which changes its
beliefs is inherently false. What other religion has held to the exact same
doctrine for nearly 2000 years?
God gives all rights, and He has not granted anyone else the right nor ability
> And therefore, what gives anyone the right to force their beliefs on anyone?
to force beliefs. Morality, however, is another issue, and it is the
responsibility of our civil authorities to enforce it. And the Church has not
only the right, but a mandate to teach all. After all, if you are not
presented with the truth in the first place, how could you make a decision to
accept or reject it?
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