On 1/5/07, Jared <jared@hatwhite.com> wrote:
> I haven't found anything significant that was available, or more current, in
> Gentoo than in *buntu and in Mandriva.  Better yet, the binary packages work
> when installed, and I don't get stuck in a dependency upgrade lock because
> some required file won't build or isn't the right version.

Sigh. We must run such criticism through the JH filter, and see
if anything survives. (ie. it could be an email from someone
who Just Hates everything he doesn't understand). Thus, if he
doesn't like Gentoo, it's possibly because he couldn't get it
running, not because it has any flaws. For example:

> Nobody should kid themselves that using emerge is anything like building LFS,
> compiling and installing from a tarball, or the best practice, building your
> own binary .deb or .rpm files.  Those tasks will teach you useful things
> about your system.  Gentoo will just teach you to hate it because it's always
> broken.

Let's look carefully at the logic here. Logically, this is comparing
binary .deb and .rpm scripts with "using emerge".

Not a fair comparison. This is two different classes. Why not
compare "creating ebuild scripts" and "building .deb or .rpm"?
Emerge is only "always broken" to people who don't know how to
fix it, same as anywhere else.

So the true underlying question, having filtered the noise out:
If you want to learn useful things about your system, do you want
to study source or pre-compiled binaries?

Leaerning "useful things about your system" does not come
from installing binary pre-compiled packages, HALF as much
as it comes from installing from source. Yes, it's more
difficult to master. So?

Gentoo. Smooth, and like a rock. And very very fast, managed
by people who know what they're doing.

Look, I know VERY LITTLE, and I'm comfortable with Gentoo. It's
not that I know a lot, it's simply that I do not despise what I
do not know. Debian is still my favorite, even though it's "always
broken." And Suse is what's on my dual-boot box, only because
I haven't figured out how to get rid of it without clobbering
the Windows partition. And none of these I despise. :)

Oh, and here is what EDOS says about packages. You'll see that
"always broken" is not specific to any single flavor of Linux.

http://www.edos-project.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/PackageOverview

-Jared

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This thread raises a bigger question by where it's gone and NOT examined.
The "WHY"  a given distro or project gets  left so far behind that we have to migrate.
Not one of the usual fates of maintainer/s give up- though at the end of my look at this I offer a reason and cure- but an overall query. Absent something so much better coming along that really obsoletes the "FOO" one is migrating from to the "BAR" that is so much better- Why do otherwise workable schemes go west?

One of my best discussion points is asking someone to compare PINE to Thunderbird.

That's going to be a seperate rant.

I have been trying to follow what's being used for logic by the folks in this thread.
Some VERY good points on different aspects are being made.
Then again- I am able to see both the ubergeek thrill of low level DIY and the comfort that "appliance operation" can bring. Not to deprecate either extreme. just to mention that there's a risk in these threads of polarity. Those who have found a comfortable niche tend to stick in it. And others seek more. I guess a certain bipolar streak defines where my comfort is. There ARE times when riding the bleeding edge of alpha releases can be a kick. Then there's a time for "it just works"

Let's all do our part to make that "just plain works" user experience the default one.
I mean- how many of us are feeding back bug info ? A sincere attaboy to those of us who are.  And an  even more sincere plea- if you are not- start doing so!
Because if we do the chances of a distro or concept getting orphaned decreases and these migrations become less frequent.