<div dir="ltr">On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 8:39 AM, Kelsay, Brian - Kansas City, MO <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:brian.kelsay@kcc.usda.gov">brian.kelsay@kcc.usda.gov</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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Currently the US has a quota on how many people are allowed in from each<br>
country per year and I believe that number is set to keep the numbers of<br>
types of peoples balanced in this great melting pot of ours.</blockquote><div><br>There's part of the problem. I'm of the opinion that we ought to not discriminate based upon nationality.<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
If you don't<br>
like them, then personally work to get them changed. Write letters,<br>
protest, try to get into congress or whatever method you can think of if<br>
it is something that sets you on fire. BUT, entering this or any other<br>
country remains an illegal enterprise, just as an improper lane change<br>
without a signal, although that will not get you a ticket as quickly as<br>
speeding in this town.<br>
We are a nation of laws and to me that means something.<br>
</blockquote><div><br>One of my biggest issues with the immigration "debate" is the fact that it's disproportionate. There are many things wrong in this country, yet there's a certain craziness that some people get when talking about this issue. I'm all for comprehensive reform, but I personally feel that this is a much smaller issue than others. For many of those folks I'm convinced racism and xenophobia are behind their "concern".<br>
<br>I attended one of Pat Roberts' conference call / town meeting things a month or so back. There was a woman who was hysterically shouting into the phone that we ought to order border control agents to shoot to kill illegal immigrants. I'm not kidding, and I'm not overemphasizing her hysteria. Her voice was shaking and she was shouting into the phone. Pat, of course, didn't denounce her comments and instead talked about his positions on immigration. What a coward. <br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
You must also think about the screening that is supposed to happen when<br>
a person enters the country. I know, I know, they didn't do that back<br>
in 1620, but people also died of a lot of diseases and died of natural<br>
causes before they hit 50. So now we test for disease, we vaccinate,<br>
we make sure they don't carry in food with fruit flies and things<br>
growing on them. </blockquote><div><br>You must not know this, but that's exactly what they were doing just that on Ellis Island starting in the 1800s. It had a massive hospital where diseased immigrants were held, and many were sent back to their native countries if they had a communicable disease. Screening isn't a new thing, though it's certainly more modern now.<br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> I must've been asked about fruit like 20 times on the<br>
way to and from Hawaii in 1996.</blockquote><div><br>Hehe Hawai'i is a state, not a foreign country. But I know what you mean. :)<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
We make sure these persons have some<br>
job or vocation lined up and other things so they are not a drain on the<br>
system.</blockquote><div><br>Also performed at Ellis Island since the 1800s. They would return folks who they felt were going to be a drain on society. Their standards, however, were lower and they focused on whether or not someone knew a trade, not whether or not they have lined up a job in advance (which is very difficult for the poor).<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">They must take classes to learn history, they must learn some<br>
basic English, etc.</blockquote><div><br>I would agree with the history part, except for the fact that people born here don't know any of this themselves. I think we hold others to a higher standard than we hold ourselves.<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> I do believe that putting signs, etc. in Spanish<br>
is a crutch and a mistake.</blockquote><div><br>I think that if a community or state wants to do something, it should be allowed to. I think the Federal government needs to stop involving itself in things it doesn't need to. As far as signs go, that's really not a new issue. In Italian neighborhoods lots of signs are in Italian. Same for Chinatown. Or Little Saigon. But I think you're talking about "official" signs. I can see your point, but I'm not sure I agree. I don't see the harm in America becoming more multicultural.<br>
<br>However given the complexity of the issue I'm inclined to let the states and local communities decide what's good for them. I don't think Kansas should have to print signs in Spanish if they don't want. On the other hand, I don't think the Feds should be telling New Mexico what to do.<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Look at what it is doing to Canada.</blockquote><div><br>Are you referring to the Quebecois? Or other immigrants? If you're referring to the Quebecois then I think you don't know what you're talking about, as the Quebecois aren't a subculture of Canada, and implying they ought to learn English when they live in communities composed entirely of French-speaking people would be silly. That said, most Quebecois know some English, and many of the other Canadians know some French.<br>
<br>If you are referring to another language, then I'm not sure what it's doing to Canada. I haven't heard of anything.<br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Employers are being punished for employing known illegal immigrants.<br>
Fines are being imposed and they are being watched closer for employing<br>
illegals. Those penalties are in the law and again, you can try to get<br>
them changed to be more forceful. I figure that once a company is in<br>
violation of the law with one department, that others may start to look<br>
their way also. Maybe have a detailed health inspection and OSHA<br>
inspection.</blockquote><div><br>Yes, I agree. My concern is that it's obviously not being enforced. The government has been looking the other way on this issue, as it underfunds enforcement efforts. Unfortunately we send troops to the border in order that we can look tough on this issue, when the reality is that cracking down on illegal employment is far more effective. There's hypocrisy in how we've been dealing with this problem.<br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Funny you mentioned Cubans. For one they are a lot smaller population<br>
base and many were fleeing being murdered in the streets. Papa Fidel<br>
was no better than Stalin and killed many of his own people. For<br>
reasons of the type of situation they are leaving, certain peoples are<br>
given leniency from time to time.</blockquote><div><br>The vast majority of the Cuban emigres the last 20 years have been folks seeking economic freedom. Just like the vast majority of the Mexican emigres. In the mid-80s there was the infamous prison dump, and before then there were lots of political refugees, but nowadays that's just not the typical case.<br>
<br>And I'm sorry, as crappy as Fidel is, he's not even on the same scale as Stalin. That's an inaccurate comparison. I get your point, though.<br> </div>Have a good day, thanks for the conversation.<br>Jeffrey.<br>
</div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><br>"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." -- Thomas Paine<br>
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